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What does samudaya mean?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:28 am
by Element
Dear forum,

I have a question for the Pali experts, such as Ajahn Dhammanando.

We usually translate the word samudaya as 'cause'.

However, I am under the impression it means 'origin' or 'complete arising'.

Thus, what did the Lord Buddha intend to say when he used the term 'dukkha samudaya' in the Second Noble Truth?

Was he referring to 'the cause' or more?

I think the word hetu means 'prior cause' thus samudaya appears more detailed than hetu.

Regards,

Element

Re: What does samudaya mean?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:17 pm
by thecap
Hi Element

I'm not an expert but your impression seems correct.

aya - "to come"
ud - "up"
sam - "with"
samudaya - "what comes up with (dukkha)"¹

samudaya - rise, origin, coming into existence, the second ariya²

¹http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/bod ... three.html
²http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/pali/

Re: What does samudaya mean?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:49 pm
by kc2dpt
Maybe it's related to dependent origination?
"With the arising of this coming the arising of that."

Re: What does samudaya mean?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:10 pm
by thecap
Peter wrote:Maybe it's related to dependent origination?
"With the arising of this coming the arising of that."
Indeed.

Re: What does samudaya mean?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:59 pm
by Element
Peter wrote:Maybe it's related to dependent origination?
"With the arising of this coming the arising of that."
Mmm...could be Peter.