Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 6006
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

Post by SDC »

Below you can see the Buddha recommend relying on craving, conceit and food for the abandonment of each, but not sexual intercourse. It is to be cut off. Obviously it is not forbidden for a layperson, but if liberation is the goal it is non-negotiable.
AN 4.159 wrote:...This body, sister, comes into being through food. And yet it is by relying on food that food is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk, considering it thoughtfully, takes food—not playfully, nor for intoxication, nor for putting on bulk, nor for beautification—but simply for the survival & continuance of this body, for ending its afflictions, for the support of the holy life, [thinking,] ‘Thus will I destroy old feelings [of hunger] and not create new feelings [from overeating]. I will maintain myself, be blameless, & live in comfort.’ Then he eventually abandons food, having relied on food. ‘This body, sister, comes into being through food. And yet it is by relying on food that food is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.

“‘This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, ‘The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here & now.’ The thought occurs to him, ‘I hope that I, too, will—through the ending of the fermentations—enter & remain in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for myself in the here & now.’ Then he eventually abandons craving, having relied on craving. ‘This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

“‘This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by relying on conceit that conceit is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, ‘The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here & now.’ The thought occurs to him, ‘The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here & now. Then why not me?’ Then he eventually abandons conceit, having relied on conceit. ‘This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by relying on conceit that conceit is to be abandoned.’ Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.

“This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.”
Sex doesn't make people happy. Like anything else, it temporarily removes the pain of craving. That's satisfaction, not happiness.

User avatar
TheSynergist
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:25 pm

Re: Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

Post by TheSynergist »

SDC wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:54 am
Below you can see the Buddha recommend relying on craving, conceit and food for the abandonment of each, but not sexual intercourse.
Ananda is speaking in the Sutta, not the Buddha. Just pointing that out, because the excerpt you quoted isn't clear on this point.

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 6006
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

Post by SDC »

TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:59 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:54 am
Below you can see the Buddha recommend relying on craving, conceit and food for the abandonment of each, but not sexual intercourse.
Ananda is speaking in the Sutta, not the Buddha. Just pointing that out, because the excerpt you quoted isn't clear on this point.
Yes, that was my mistake.

Nevertheless, the point of the instructions seems to be that food, craving and conceit can all be carefully relied upon for their own abandonment, while sexual intercourse cannot. So, in terms of development, there is no positive use for sexual intercourse. That was the only point I was trying to make. I don't think the fact that it is Ananda's instruction disqualifies its authenticity nor its depth, but of course you are free to make that argument.

User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 2130
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm

Re: Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

Post by confusedlayman »

SDC wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:29 pm
TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:59 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:54 am
Below you can see the Buddha recommend relying on craving, conceit and food for the abandonment of each, but not sexual intercourse.
Ananda is speaking in the Sutta, not the Buddha. Just pointing that out, because the excerpt you quoted isn't clear on this point.
Yes, that was my mistake.

Nevertheless, the point of the instructions seems to be that food, craving and conceit can all be carefully relied upon for their own abandonment, while sexual intercourse cannot. So, in terms of development, there is no positive use for sexual intercourse. That was the only point I was trying to make. I don't think the fact that it is Ananda's instruction disqualifies its authenticity nor its depth, but of course you are free to make that argument.
U right. Xxx should be removed I mean even thinking to reach atleast anagami stage
You can become king of world with all the wealth but it is not equal to 0.1 % of jhana pleasure...

sunnat
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:08 am

Re: Positive Sexual Practice beyond Unwholesome Roots

Post by sunnat »

It is the bridge that is to be cut off. The bridge is a simile for support.

Post Reply