Pa-Auk, Sujin Boriharnwanaket, Mahasi, etc

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zerotime
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Re: Pa-Auk, Sujin Boriharnwanaket, Mahasi, etc

Post by zerotime » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:12 pm

just to expand this topic about arhants, inside SN 8.7 the Buddha explain the arhants classification in 4 types:

1 - triple-knowledge (tevijja)
2 - six super knowledges (chalabhiñña)
3 - liberated in both ways (ubhatobhagavimutta)
4 - liberated by wisdom (paññavimutta).

from this short classification we find a lot of subclassifications according Abhidhamma commentaries. However these contains some contradictions.

In example we find the Buddhaghosa Manorathapurani explain paññavimutta as a different type than Puggalapaññatti. So in one work the arhants of the 4th type are those always liberated by the pure power of wisdom, while the other work claims this type include an emergence from jhanas.

However, it seems obvious the liberation by wisdom had its own identity inside the Suttas with characters and classifications precisely because it was a different cultivation than jhana cultivation.

At least I believe these contradictions are not just by chance but it was an effort to fit this type of cultivation inside a "proper box" to
get a better settlement of the Buddhist religion in the world. Maybe becasue enough reasons at those times, I don't know. However, reality is that one one find similar reticences using similar approaches in China with the Lhasa meeting, in Japan, and even in the past century with Buddhadasa and his
Chit-Wang.

This healthy rescue of this type of cultivation taught by the Buddha appeared in the Theravada world just in the last century in Myanmar with Ledi Sayadaw and others masters. Until that time it was so invisible in the Theravada world like the dhammayoga bhikkhus from AN 6.46

Just I want to note to be careful to consider the realeasing power of wisdom subdued to some imaginary jhana celing or under the supervision or some mastery of jhanas, or something like that. Because these ideas can be an obstacle to work in a similar way of what happens by keeping theist ideas. When we read the arhants with mastery of jhanas are more "complete", it is referred to the relation with the world. It doesn't have nothing to do with nibbana and the end of dukkha. All arhants are released forever and the purpose of the path is this.

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zerotime
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Pa-Auk, Sujin Boriharnwanaket, Mahasi, etc

Post by zerotime » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:39 pm

just to expand this topic about the risk to build some image of inferior arhants or some preeminence of jhanas over wisdom:
"In this way, in the Manorathapurani, Buddhaghosa tends to explain the arahant who does not contact with body the eight deliverances as a dry-insight arahant exclusively. However, in the commentary of the Puggalapaññatti of the Pañcappakara?a, Buddhaghosa provides five possible ways to understand the arahant who is endowed with the same qualities as the arahants mentioned in the “Book of the Fours” of the A?guttara-nikaya.."

"A Study of Sukkhavipassaka in Pali Buddhism"
http://tkwen.sutta.org/A%20Study%20of%2 ... _final.pdf
Can I recommend the previous paper on sukkhavipassaka if you don't have it. From my knowledge it is the best synthesis one can find.

Beyond abhidhammic discussions around sources trying to find a suitable classification, it is an obviety the liberation by wisdom appears with its own identity inside the Suttas. With episodes including well-defined groups of bhikkhus who were well differentiated from jhana bhikkhus in their approach, and this is confirmed by Buddha words. So it was a cultivation different than deliverances akin to jhana cultivation.

Anyway, as I have said at least I believe the real interesting on the talk on arhants is to see that risk of a subsequent idea to take wisdom endowed with some inferior or uncompleted status regarding the truth because there is no jhana cultivation. In a "practical" way, I wonder if such shadow of "supervision" could become an obstacle similar to keeping some theist idea. So take care!

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