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Boredom

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:25 am
by dhamma_disciple
Hi,

I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.

thank you kindly.

Re: Boredom

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:16 am
by robertk
Dosa cetasika

Re: Boredom

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:21 am
by ground
robert

is this definitely so categorized in abhidhamma or is this your interpretation?

I am asking because I guess it can be dosa with reference to not liking the state experienced but I think it is not necessarily dosa ... with reference to objects it may also be sort of "neutral", "inattentive", "not interested in" but I don't know the abhidhamma term that may be applicable for that kind

Kind regards

Re: Boredom

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:35 pm
by unspoken
I do read it somewhere but I forgotten. Boredom is like a feeling. If you says that feels good is happy, feels bad is sad. If you feel good or bad, not good nor bad, that would be boredom.

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:37 pm
by beeblebrox
unspoken wrote:I do read it somewhere but I forgotten. Boredom is like a feeling. If you says that feels good is happy, feels bad is sad. If you feel good or bad, not good nor bad, that would be boredom.
I think that would be "neutral." Boredom is not really a neutral state. It's like a craving... you're bored because you wish for something that is more entertaining. It's one kind of aversion to what's happening right now.

:anjali:

Re: Boredom

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:31 am
by Akuma
I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.
my2c:

Boredom is characterized by the absence of determination, energy, sympathetic joy, zeal, wisdom.
Proximate cause is unwise attention.
Effect is dosa.

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:18 am
by Virgo
Akuma wrote:
I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.
my2c:

Boredom is characterized by the absence of determination, energy, sympathetic joy, zeal, wisdom.
Proximate cause is unwise attention.
Effect is dosa.
Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).

Dosa is not always strong dislike or hatred. It is defined by any level or degree of aversion. Being "bored" means being dissatisfied, and having aversion. So dosa arises very frequently. At other moments, there may be attachment, or kusala cittas.

Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.

Kevin

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:35 am
by mikenz66
Just a friendly reminder that this is the Abhidhamma section, and discussion should focus on what the Abhidhamma says about boredom and it's causes and conditions...

Abhidhamma Forum Guidelines http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in part, read:
Posts that contain personal opinions and conjecture, points of view arrived at from meditative experiences, conversations with devas, blind faith in the supreme veracity of one's own teacher's point of view etc. are all regarded as off-topic, and as such, will be subject to moderator review and/or removal.
:anjali:
Mike

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:20 pm
by Akuma
Virgo wrote: Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).
Van Gorkoms equation of the two is completely eluding me since its nonsensical; no healthy human being feels bored every single time there is aversion which would be the logical outcome of this equation. The same goes for sloth-torpor btw which I've read more often. For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.
Kevin
Yep good :).

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:06 pm
by Virgo
Akuma wrote:
Virgo wrote: Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).
Van Gorkoms equation of the two is completely eluding me since its nonsensical; no healthy human being feels bored every single time there is aversion which would be the logical outcome of this equation. The same goes for sloth-torpor btw which I've read more often. For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.
Kevin
Yep good :).
I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.

When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.

Re: Boredom

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:56 pm
by mikenz66
Akuma wrote: For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Boredom

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:53 am
by Akuma
Virgo wrote: I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.

When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.
You misunderstand me I think. I didnt mean to say "there is no dosa in boredom" but merely "boredom is not dosa". Aversion arises after one concentrates on the concept "I dont have anything to do". So boredom couldnt manifest if f.e. there was panna and kusala manasikara and so on.
Mike wrote: That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.
Ah in that case I didnt say anything. :tongue:

Re: Boredom

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:52 pm
by Virgo
Akuma wrote:
Virgo wrote: I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.

When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.
You misunderstand me I think. I didnt mean to say "there is no dosa in boredom" but merely "boredom is not dosa". Aversion arises after one concentrates on the concept "I dont have anything to do". So boredom couldnt manifest if f.e. there was panna and kusala manasikara and so on.
That's right. Conceptual thinking is object-predominance condition for dosa-mula-cittas, and so forth, which creates unpleasant feeling and dissatisfaction. "Boredom" is a concept, not a reality, so it is impossible define it is a single cetasika. While one is bored there may also be sloth and torpor for example, or attachment. The point is, the most obvious cetasika that will be involved in a process where "boredom" is experienced is dosa. That is because the characteristic of dosa is aversion, and aversion, though usually subtle and not very strong, is characteristic of "boredom".

Kevin

Re: Boredom

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:53 pm
by Virgo
mikenz66 wrote:
Akuma wrote: For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.

:anjali:
Mike
Hi Mike,

That's how I read it too.

Kevin

Re: Boredom

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:27 am
by Akuma
That's right. Conceptual thinking is object-predominance condition for dosa-mula-cittas, and so forth, which creates unpleasant feeling and dissatisfaction. "Boredom" is a concept, not a reality, so it is impossible define it is a single cetasika. While one is bored there may also be sloth and torpor for example, or attachment. The point is, the most obvious cetasika that will be involved in a process where "boredom" is experienced is dosa. That is because the characteristic of dosa is aversion, and aversion, though usually subtle and not very strong, is characteristic of "boredom".
Thanks for the clarification :smile:

Re: Boredom

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:11 pm
by dhamma_disciple
thanks all for your discussion and input!

Discussion seems to point out that when the feeling of boredom occupies the mind, it is akusula and rooted in moha as a minimum. What I am gathering from this thread is that It could be rooted in restlessness and also dosa, or associated with sloth and torpor. Overall the common thread in these possibilities is akusula.

If that is the case...then I happy to come away with, boredom manifested by akusula cittas as the conclusion.

To explain my intentions...
That being so when boredom arise in my mind It can help me be mindful that this is an akusula state of mind for daily practice. Though....unsurprising though when in mindfulness i don't feel bore anymore...



ty ty