What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
Post Reply
Srilankaputra
Posts: 697
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Post by Srilankaputra » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:07 pm

How is sīlabbatupādāna analysed in the abidhamma ?
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4660
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Jaroen Dhamma Cave, Mae Wang Huai Rin, Lamphun

Re: What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:39 pm

Two texts just to get the ball rolling...

From the Dhammasaṅgaṇī:
Which are the states that are to be put away by insight?

The three fetters, to wit, the theory of individuality, perplexity, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual.

[...]

What is the contagion of mere rule and ritual?

The theory, held by recluses and brahmins outside our doctrine:
that purification is got by rules of moral conduct,
that purification is got by rites,
that purification is got by rules of moral conduct and by rites
— this kind of opinion,
this walking in mere opinion,
this jungle of opinion,
this wilderness of opinion,
this puppet-show of opinion,
scuffling of opinion,
fetter of opinion,
the grip and tenacity of it,
the inclination towards it,
the being infected by it,
this by-path, wrong road, wrongness,
this ‘fording-place’,
this shiftiness of grasp
— this is called the contagion of mere rule and ritual.

From the Vibhaṅga Commentary:
Order of Arising

Herein, order of arising of defilements is not meant literally because there is no first arising of defilements in the beginningless round of rebirths. But in a relative sense [it is as follows:] usually in a single existence belief in eternity and annihilation is preceded by the assumption of a self. After that, in one who assumes that “this self is eternal”, there arises rites-and-rituals clinging for purifying the self; and in one who assumes that it breaks up and who thus disregards a next world, there arises sense-desire clinging. So first there arises self-theory clinging and after that wrong-view clinging and rites-and-rituals clinging, or sense-desire clinging. This, then, is their order of arising in one existence.

[...]

Order of Teaching of the Four Kinds of Upādāna

But sense-desire clinging is taught first among them because of the largeness of its objective field (visaya) and because of its obviousness. For it has a large field owing to its association with eight kinds of consciousness. The others have a narrow field owing to their association with four kinds of consciousness. And usually it is sense-desire clinging that is obvious because of the people's love of the objects of attachment (see M. i. 167), not so the other kinds. [One possessed of] sense-desire clinging is much given to display and ceremony (see M. i. 265) for the purpose of attaining the objects of his sense desire.

Wrong-view clinging comes next to the [sense-desire clinging] since that [display and ceremony] is a [wrong] view of his. And that is then split into two as rites-and-rituals clinging and self-theory clinging. And of these two, rites-and-rituals clinging is taught first as being gross, because it can be understood by seeing the ox-practice and dog-practice [of ascetics]. And self-theory clinging is taught last because of its subtlety. This is the order of the teaching.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

Srilankaputra
Posts: 697
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Post by Srilankaputra » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:39 pm


From the Vibhaṅga Commentary:
Order of Arising

usually in a single existence belief in eternity and annihilation is preceded by the assumption of a self. After that, in one who assumes that “this self is eternal”, there arises rites-and-rituals clinging for purifying the self; and in one who assumes that it breaks up and who thus disregards a next world, there arises sense-desire clinging. So first there arises self-theory clinging and after that wrong-view clinging and rites-and-rituals clinging, or sense-desire clinging. This, then, is their order of arising in one existence.

Thank you so much bhante,

This sort of answers my confusion. what is connection between four upadanas and five upadanakhandas ?

are there any differences between upadana of the 12 nidanas and upadana of the first noble truth ?
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

SarathW
Posts: 12173
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Post by SarathW » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:44 am

five upadanakhandas
It is also good if Bhante clarify the meaning of five upadanakhandas.
Is it the five aggregate or the five senses.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
Posts: 2134
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbatupādānaṃ) ?

Post by sentinel » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:31 am

Should there be any difference between five clinging aggregates and five aggregates ?
:coffee:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests