SN 12.25, like SN 12.51, is a sutta that does not necessarily explain SN 12.2. SN 12.25 is about kamma & intention and is not necessarily about the exact twelve links of dependent origination but, instead, could be an abbreviated or adapted teaching of dependent origination.
SN 12.25 is presented in the following sequence:
Part 1:
some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another, which is wrong view per
SN 12.17.
Part 2:
the Blessed One has said that happiness and suffering are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact... it is impossible that they will experience anything without contact.
Part 3:
when there is the body, because of bodily volition (kāyasañcetanāhetu) happiness and suffering (sukhadukkhaṃ) arise (uppajjati) internally; when there is speech, because of verbal volition happiness and suffering arise internally; when there is the mind, because of mental volition happiness and suffering arise internally—and with ignorance as condition.
It should be noted AN 6.63 says "
kamma is intention". Because the topic in SN 12.25 is about kamma, the teaching of intention is introduced into the sutta. However, this does not mean this intention (kāyasañcetanāhetu) is 2nd link sankhara because in Dependent Origination, intention arises at 4th link nama-rupa and also at 9th link craving. Similar to MN 149, the words
sukhadukkhaṃ do not necessarily mean 'vedana' (feeling) but probably refer to 'happiness & suffering', as follows:
...delight and lust, and delights in this and that—increases. One’s bodily and mental troubles increase, one’s bodily and mental torments increase, one’s bodily and mental fevers increase, and one experiences bodily and mental suffering.
...delight and lust, and delights in this or that—is abandoned. One’s bodily and mental troubles are abandoned, one’s bodily and mental torments are abandoned, one’s bodily and mental fevers are abandoned, and one experiences bodily and mental pleasure.
MN 149
Part 4:
Either on one’s own initiative, Ānanda one generates (abhisaṅkharoti) that bodily formation (kāyasaṅkhāraṃ) conditioned by which happiness and suffering arise internally; or prompted by others one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which happiness and suffering arise internally.
Now, the above Part 4 seems to have many problems, which similar to SN 12.51, brings into question its authenticity. Or, otherwise, the main discussion of the sutta is about what occurs
after sense contact. The possible problems are:
1. In Part 1, the idea that the "self" creates "kamma" is refuted, similar to SN 12.17.
2. Yet in Part 4, it is said the "self" (i.e., one’s own initiative) generates a bodily condition or kayasankhara. This sounds like a contradiction;
unless this abhisaṅkharoti occurs after sense contact; per the theme at the start of the sutta.
3. Within the same paragraph, both the terms "kāyasañcetanāhetu" & "kāyasaṅkhāraṃ" are used yet why would the Buddha, who is supposed to be a perfect speaker, use two different terms to refer to the same thing?
4. If the possible contradiction (of "one’s own initiative") is ignored, the sutta says:
Ānanda, when there is the body, because of bodily volition (kāyasañcetanāhetu) happiness and suffering arise internally... with ignorance as condition. “Either on one’s own initiative, Ānanda one generates (abhisaṅkharoti) that bodily formation (kāyasaṅkhāraṃ) conditioned by which happiness and suffering arise internally; or prompted by others one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally. Either deliberately, Ānanda, one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or undeliberately one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally.
This paragraph seems to possibly say:
1. Intention (craving) & kamma (bhava) lead to happiness & suffering. Note: the sutta sounds mundane & not about Nibbana.
2. Kayasankhara is the cause for kāyasañcetanāhetu to arise.
3. For example, when prompted by another (which is sense-contact; 6th link), thinking (abhisaṅkharoti) generates a kaya sankhara (breathing). For example, you are sitting quietly and another person makes a loud noise, causing your mind to be shocked & your breathing (kayasankhara) to become rapid & agitated. This causes you to jump up, with your body, and hit the other person, with your body (which is kāyasañcetanāhetu). Hitting the other person creates suffering. Here,
kayasankhara causes
kāyasañcetanā to arise.
4. For example, if like Sariputta, your breathing (
kayasankhara) remained calm when a Yakka gave you a blow on the head,
kāyasañcetanā would not arise. You would have no intention (kāyasañcetanā) to hit the Yakka back; out of anger & revenge.
theY wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:51 amSo, both sutta not conflict each other.
If the Buddha used "kāyasañcetanāhetu" & "kāyasaṅkhāraṃ" to refer to the same phenomena, this seems to be a conflict.
theY wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:51 amThe actually problem is the reader has not enough knowledge to read it.
Maybe too much book knowledge. When I visited Buddhadasa's monastery in Thailand, in the art gallery, there was a painting of a skeleton crawling over many dhamma books. A person died reading too many dhamma books; never knowing Nibbana. Have you considered starting a topic about
MN 139?