Nothing difference between suttanta and abhidhamma and commentary, when you deeply understood pali language.
Where is abidhammists' explanation? I found just the pāli's relationship. Abidhamma is just a dictionary that suttanta-memorizer, sāriputta-mahāsāvaka, made. So, I can explain below without any abhidhamma reference. But it looks like abhidhamma view, because nothing difference in main-content between suttanta and abhidhamma.
The difference in main-content between suttanta and abhidhamma is just the under standard tipitaka study, not recite whole tipitaka-pāli, not memorize whole tipitaka-pāli, not taught by professor who recited and memorized tipitaka.
See, ancient tipitaka study system
for more detail.
All commentary teachers must done every courses inside that link.
Zom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:40 pm
lokiya-magga=training of no skill practitioner.
lokuttara-magga=graduation of practitioner's training.
This is the first time I hear such explanation -)
Anyway, even if it is correct, it still sounds weird - the name "lokiya magga" for the name of actually world-transcending noble path
I wonder, what is the reason for making such a confusion.
. Loka refer to 5 aggregates
, because 5 arose aggregates (=12 āyatana) must vanish, breaking
means independent, above, transcending
Lokiya means (5) clinging-aggregates that depending on the other (5) clinging-aggregates.
Lokuttara means nibbāna and unclinging-aggregates that depending on nibbāna [4 lokuttara-magga + 4 lokuttara-phala].
So, you can see every words that I explained above in loka sutta
Haven't read these yet, but they've been on my to do list for a while, and may be of interest here:
The Nature of the Eight-factored Ariya, Lokuttara Magga in the Suttas Compared to the Pali Commentarial Idea of it as Momentary
The Saṅgha of Noble Sāvakas, with Particular Reference to their Trainee Member, the Person 'Practising for the Realization of the Stream-entry-fruit'
The first one I can't open, but the second paper is interesting, thanks .) There he cites, by the way, MN 117, and with this new perspective of "lokiya magga" as actual "lokuttara" one, I wonder how abidhammists can explain it, where the statement concerning the path is quite opposite.
I even thought like that, when I was young and read translated sutta without pāli knowledge and without pāli-reciting&memorizing.
But the mahācattārīsakasutta-pāli is:
atthi bhikkhave sammādiṭṭhi sāsavā puññabhāgiyā upadhivepakkā; atthi bhikkhave sammādiṭṭhi ariyā anāsavā lokuttarā maggaṅgā.
Grammar of it:
- atthi (main-verb)
- bhikkhave (vocative)
- sammādiṭṭhi (nominative)
- sāsavā (adjective of sammādiṭṭhi)
- puññabhāgiyā (adjective of sammādiṭṭhi)
- upadhivepakkā (adjective of sammādiṭṭhi);
- atthi bhikkhave sammādiṭṭhi ariyā anāsavā lokuttarā maggaṅgā (this sentence is the opposite of previous sentence).
So the this 3 words: sāsavā puññabhāgiyā and upadhivepakkā, are the synonym of each other.
origins are kilesa-causes of sammādiṭṭhi: kāma
origins are kamma-causes of sammādiṭṭhi: wholesome [merit] and unwholesome [demerit]: saṇkhāra-paṭiccasamuppāda/kamma-bhava-paṭiccasamuppāda.
origins are vipāka-effects of sammādiṭṭhi: clinging-aggregates (clinging: kāma
-upādāna. aggregates: rūpa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāṇa)
Obviously, mahācattārīsaka-sutta showing sāsavā sammādiṭṭhi as paticcasamuppāda.
So, in nibbedhika-sutta:
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, āsavānaṃ vipāko
? Yaṃ kho, bhikkhave, avijjāgato tajjaṃ tajjaṃ attabhāvaṃ abhinibbatteti puññabhāgiyaṃ vā apuññabhāgiyaṃ vā
, ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, āsavānaṃ vipāko.
“And what is the fruit of defilements
(āsavānaṃ vipāko)? Ignoring (in defilements) produces an existence, that was produced by defilements (such as avijā-āsava, etc), that was produced by merit or demerit (puññabhāgiyā
). This is called the fruit of defilements.
Therefore, sāsavā/puññabhāgiyā /upadhivepakkā sammādiṭṭhi = sammādiṭṭhi that was produced by defilements & by merit or by demerit, and produces it's defilement-co-produced fruits
Why you have to quote too much commentary. Useless
Just pāli is enough. If you recited&memorized&understand pāli words' relationship, no need commentary.
It is the same.
I am a trustful buddhist in tipitaka, commentary, and abhidhamma. But "where is abhidhamma in this my reply?".
The translated tipitaka in thai and english are imperfect, lost many pāli relationship. But tipitaka-pāli is perfect. They link each other, no any big conflict between them. But the under standard tipitaka students, especially the western professors, trying to make them conflict with each other pitaka, because of their under standard tipitaka study system.