Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Taught

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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Buddha Vacana
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:32 am

Perhaps you could move the entire thread including the OP over there then?

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Dhammanando
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:44 pm

theY wrote:
Buddha Vacana wrote:Hi, theY

Pardon this tangential question, but what is a "goukrit"?
Your boss.
Generally, it is advisable to provide cogent arguments when making a claim, especially about what happened at the Buddha's time. The exercise would certainly benefit us.
Your application have not abhidhamma, commentary, and sub-commentary, so how can I reference it to be evidence to you, goukrit's student?

I can explain this topic by only tipitaka, without commentary. But it will be only my own view, like your teacher view. So I have to use commentary as a claimer. But your application don't have it. So I can't not explain it to you. I don't have a tools for you.

Especially your institute. I'm sorry
I think you have jumped to a wrong conclusion here. Our member Buddha Vacana is from France and (as far as I know) has no connection with the พุทธวจนะ organization of Phra Kukrit Sotthiphalo in Thailand. Nor (as far as I know) does Buddha Vacana make any use of the พุทธวจนะ organization's software application. That they are both called "Buddhavacana" is just a coincidence.

Sroberto
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by Sroberto » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:00 am

Twilight wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:18 pm
Sorry but I have not made claims about the contents of the abbhidhamma. I had only expressed disapproval about authenticity claims made over here such as: Sariputta who died before the Buddha memorizing the abbhidhama as a form of secret teaching when we know that Buddha said he had not kept anything secret from us. Claims that is was recited at the first buddhist council, that western scholars got it all wrong and the brumese know better etc.
:goodpost:

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by salayatananirodha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:42 am

Why was abhidhamma not recited at the first council then? :thinking:
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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robertk
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by robertk » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:54 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:42 am
Why was abhidhamma not recited at the first council then? :thinking:
it was indeed recited at the first council.

theY
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by theY » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:14 am

Sroberto wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:00 am
Twilight wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:18 pm
Sorry but I have not made claims about the contents of the abbhidhamma. I had only expressed disapproval about authenticity claims made over here such as: Sariputta who died before the Buddha memorizing the abbhidhama as a form of secret teaching when we know that Buddha said he had not kept anything secret from us. Claims that is was recited at the first buddhist council, that western scholars got it all wrong and the brumese know better etc.
This is the outdated assumptions derive from the first age of the western buddhist study by the historian and the archaeologist.

When someone quote like that I can assume he can't connect whole tipitaka as the united, but the tipitaka memorizers can do. So, I will not listen him, because I want to understand tipitaka as the united, as tipitaka is. I don't want to understand just some aspects of tipitaka like the westerner doing.

You can not understand the whole tipitaka as the united as it is. It doesn't mean nobody can do.

Tipitaka-memorizers have their own study system which have doing continuously from the buddha time to nowadays. Most of western professors never graduated from that study system, so they can not connect tipitaka as the united as it is.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

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pitakele
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by pitakele » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:06 pm

robertk wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:54 am

it (abhidhamma) was indeed recited at the first council.
Are there any sources apart from commentaries which state this?
now here = nowhere

theY
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Re: Linguistics Reason: Ananda Memorized Sutta For The Other, But Sariputta Memorized Abhidhamma That Buddha Directly Ta

Post by theY » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:09 pm

pitakele wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:06 pm
robertk wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:54 am

it (abhidhamma) was indeed recited at the first council.
Are there any sources apart from commentaries which state this?
Do you really think ānanda/sāriputta/kassapa/anuruddha/upāli were no brain to ask what they/their students can't understand while they were listening and memorizing sutta from Buddha?

If they were having brain while listening Buddha's sutta, where were their questions and answers? On the other hand, where were their books?

Are their books abhidhamma, parivāra, paṭisambhidhāmagga, ancient atthakathā, right?

Or Buddha's followers can keep/memorize tipitaka through 45 years without any questions/books/comment/aspects? Is it possible?


Can you find the answer? Or you just want to discredit abhidhamma by every way you can without the possible fact?

Commentary wrote Abhidhamma authored by Ven. Sāriputta, after he listened the abhidhamma's summary from the Buddha. Ven. Sāriputta also authored KN. Paṭisambhidāmagga as well.

Commentary wrote 'Only ancient commentary were being at 1st saṅgāyanā'. When Buddhaghosa combined all commentaries, ancient commentary and singhala commentaries, together, he separate them clearly. I still can notice which text is the ancient commentary, and which is not.

More description:

https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/s ... hidhammist

https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/s ... el/History
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html


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