Javana = Cetana

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SarathW
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Javana = Cetana

Post by SarathW » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:04 pm

Javana = Cetana

I was listening to the following video by Ven Dhammanando.
He say all the thinking are not kamma but only the Cetana is kamma.

Further analysis I came to the conclusion Javana thought in Abhidhamma means Cetana.
Then question come why Abhidhamma teachers did not use the word Cetana.

Appreciate your comments.

:thinking:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tELfbEK ... F&index=57" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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The Thinker
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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by The Thinker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:40 am

First of all, I must point out that this is just my take on this subject, I am not experienced enough or qualified to give guidance, Javana appears to be the whole process of the seven factors involved in the thought process, cetana (volition - Direction)is included within this process.
Last edited by The Thinker on Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

SarathW
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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by SarathW » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:17 am

Hi Thinker
The following link may some help for you.

The Abhidhamma in Practice

by

N.K.G. Mendis


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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The Thinker
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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by The Thinker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:21 am

Thank you SarathW,

Your directional guidance is much appreciated. :thumbsup:
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by dhamma follower » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:13 am

SarathW wrote:Javana = Cetana

I was listening to the following video by Ven Dhammanando.
He say all the thinking are not kamma but only the Cetana is kamma.

Further analysis I came to the conclusion Javana thought in Abhidhamma means Cetana.
Then question come why Abhidhamma teachers did not use the word Cetana.

Appreciate your comments.

:thinking:
Hi Sarath

As you probably know, cetana is a cetasika (mental factors), whereas javana is a term that refers to the seven cittas that arise in a process, either sense door or mind door. The term is used in order to distinguish the different kinds, and sequences of cittas that are involved in a process, which can be either vipaka (resultant), kiriya (inoperative), unwholesome or wholesome. When one talks about javana, one is referring to the cittas that are wholesome, unwholesome, or inoperative (in the case of an Arahant), not to the resultant cittas (seeing consciousness and so on), neither to the inoperative cittas commons to all.

Cetana arises with all cittas. When it arises with the cittas that are resultant or ordinary inoperative cittas, it performs the function of coordinating other cetasikas, but it does not create any kamma, because the cittas are then resultant and inoperative. Only when it arises together with the wholesome or unwholesome cittas, which arise in the javana, that it can create kamma.

To summarize:
- Javana include many dhammas other than cetana (cittas and their accompanying mental factors, cetana being one of them)
- There are cetanas that arise outside of the javana.

Therefore, one can not conclude that cetana = javana.

Cetana is kamma when it arises with wholesome and unwholesome cittas, because of its function of willing the accompanying wholesome or unwholesome mental factors to perform good or bad deeds.

Brgrds,

D.F.

SarathW
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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by SarathW » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:54 am

What are the Cetana arise outside Javana?
Please explain this using seventeen thought moments.
As far as I know Kamma is operative only in Javana thought moment.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Javana = Cetana

Post by dhamma follower » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:10 pm

SarathW wrote:What are the Cetana arise outside Javana?
Please explain this using seventeen thought moments.
As far as I know Kamma is operative only in Javana thought moment.
Hi Sarath,

Cetana is a mental factor that arises with ALL consciousnesses, being one of the 7 universal mental factors. Resultant consciousnesses (numbered 5,6,7,16,17 in the seventeen thought moments) are not kamma, but still have cetana arising together with them. Kiriya consciousnesses (numbered 4,8 in the seventeen thought moments) are not kamma, but still have cetana arising together with them.

In short, kamma is cetana, but not all cetanas are kamma. However, if we go more into the details, cetana, at those resultant and kiriya moments condition other mental factors by way of sahajata kamma paccaya, but only in the sense that it coordinates them, not in the sense we ordinarily think of kamma, which is the potential to produce result later on.

Brgrds,

D.F

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