Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Here are some links to where Abhidhamma is taught in the Suttas. I'm sure there are other Suttas though.

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/majjhima/112 ... hana-e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Majjhima Nikaya 112 Chabbisodhana Sutta - The Six-Fold Examination

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/majjhima/115 ... tuka-e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Majjhima Nikaya 115 Bahudhatuka Sutta - The Many Kinds of Elements

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/majjhima/140 ... anga-e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Majjhima Nikaya 140 Dhatu-vibhanga Sutta - The Exposition of the
Properties

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/majjhima/148-chachakka-e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Majjhima Nikaya 148 Chachakka Sutta The Discourse of Six Sixes

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/majjhima/149 ... nika-e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Majjhima Nikaya 149 Mahaasa.laayatanika Sutta - The Longer Discourse
on the six spheres

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sa ... 2-056.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Samyutta Nikaya XXII.56 Parivatta Sutta - The (Fourfold) Round

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sa ... 2-057.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Samyutta Nikaya XXII.57 - Seven Bases

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by Ben »

Excellent, Chris! Just excellent!
Thanks for posting!
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

It's probably worth noting that the term "abhidhamma" appears in the suttas, but in that context it simply refers to the Buddha's teaching which do not infer a conventional person... thus, that which addresses elements, sense-bases, mindstates etc.

Then there is "Abhidhamma", not referred to in the suttas, which refers to the Abhidhamma Pitaka.

Whilst the differences are acknowledged, it's also worth bearing in mind that there's no concept of capital letters in Pali, so confusion may arise when it's not understood which (A/a)bhidhamma is being referred to.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by tiltbillings »

Moderator note: For those who are new to this section, here are the guidelines:
The Abhidhamma and Classical Theravada sub-forums are specialized venues for the discussion of the Abhidhamma and the classical Mahavihara understanding of the Dhamma. Within these forums the Pali Tipitaka and its commentaries are for discussion purposes treated as authoritative. These forums are for the benefit of those members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of these texts and are not for the challenging of the Abhidhamma and/or Theravada commentarial literature.

Posts should also include support from a reference, a citation (Tipitaka, commentarial, or from a later work from an author representative of the Classical point-of-view).

Posts that contain personal opinions and conjecture, points of view arrived at from meditative experiences, conversations with devas, blind faith in the supreme veracity of one's own teacher's point of view etc. are all regarded as off-topic, and as such, will be subject to moderator review and/or removal.
There are other sections where broader and challenging questions can be raised and debated. In this section, however, please follow the guidelines.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Sroberto
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:29 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by Sroberto »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:50 pm Greetings,

It's probably worth noting that the term "abhidhamma" appears in the suttas, but in that context it simply refers to the Buddha's teaching which do not infer a conventional person... thus, that which addresses elements, sense-bases, mindstates etc.

Then there is "Abhidhamma", not referred to in the suttas, which refers to the Abhidhamma Pitaka.

Whilst the differences are acknowledged, it's also worth bearing in mind that there's no concept of capital letters in Pali, so confusion may arise when it's not understood which (A/a)bhidhamma is being referred to.

Metta,
Retro. :)
:goodpost:
Sroberto
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:29 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by Sroberto »

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 5603
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by robertk »

Sroberto wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Unbelievable.
So this monk thinks there is no tipitaka, just a dvipitaka.
And he takes pride in being heretical.
Wow.
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:50 pm It's probably worth noting that the term "abhidhamma" appears in the suttas, but in that context it simply refers to the Buddha's teaching which do not infer a conventional person... thus, that which addresses elements, sense-bases, mindstates etc.

Then there is "Abhidhamma", not referred to in the suttas, which refers to the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
It's also worth noting that the Abhidhamma Pitaka itself is actually quite consistent with the suttas, being largely a detailed analysis and enumeration of them. In fact "[teachings] which do not infer a conventional person... thus, that which addresses elements, sense-bases, mindstates etc." is a good summary of purpose of the Canonical Abhidhamma.

I tire of pointing out the distinction but a surprising number people continue to say "Abhidhamma" when they are, in fact, talking about the Commentaries. Strangely, it appears that many critics of "Abhidhamma" have no idea what it actually contains, some seeming proud of not having read it...

There is a short summary of the major points here: https://suttacentral.net/abhidhamma

:heart:
Mike
User avatar
cjmacie
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:49 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by cjmacie »

A slightly tangential detail -- surprised to find, in a recent Pali class nearby, taught by a Burmese translator, with students from vaious SE-Asian countries, that they pronounce "abhidhamma" as "aBHIdhamma" (accent on 2nd syllable), rather than "ABhidhamma" as most Americans say it.

Also, they say "dhamMApada" (likewise accent on 2nd syllable) where we routinely say "DHAmmaPAda".
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by mikenz66 »

cjmacie wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:53 pm A slightly tangential detail -- surprised to find, in a recent Pali class nearby, taught by a Burmese translator, with students from vaious SE-Asian countries, that they pronounce "abhidhamma" as "aBHIdhamma" (accent on 2nd syllable), rather than "ABhidhamma" as most Americans say it.

Also, they say "dhamMApada" (likewise accent on 2nd syllable) where we routinely say "DHAmmaPAda".
Emphasising the second syllable is, I think, standard. Also, I'm not familiar with Burmese, but a Thai person would pronounce your name MaCIE... And ABhidhamma would just be plain wrong, since the syllables would be a-bhi-dham-ma.

:heart:
Mike
User avatar
pitakele
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:27 pm

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by pitakele »

mikenz66 wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:26 pm
a-bhi-dham-ma.
As you may know, pronunciation of Pali consonants tends to be modified in Thai, e.g. Dhamma => Thamma. Abhidhamma is usually pronounced A-phi-tham.
aniccā vata saṇkhārā - tesaṁ vūpasamo sukho
Sroberto
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:29 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by Sroberto »

robertk wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:50 pm
Sroberto wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Unbelievable.
So this monk thinks there is no tipitaka, just a dvipitaka.
And he takes pride in being heretical.
Wow.
He is being sarcastic. He was excomunicated (in Thailand) for ordaining a female bhikuni in Australia. https://sujato.wordpress.com/2009/11/07 ... municated/

He said the abbidhama was not taught by the Buddha, not that the Tipitaka does not exist. The point he is making is that it is not necessary to progress on the path to enlightenment.
User avatar
AgarikaJ
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:21 pm
Location: Germany, Nong Bua Lamphu (Thailand)

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by AgarikaJ »

cooran wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:19 pm I'm sure there are other Suttas though.
I am sure it is known to most reading here, but an exhausting view of Abidhamma and textual research on its genesis -- comparing Pali and Mahayana sources -- can be found in Bikkhi Analayo's book 'The Dawn of Abidharma'.

This (and others) can be downloaded for free as .pdf at the website of the Hamburg Buddhist Studies, https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... udies.html
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]
polaris
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:59 am

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by polaris »

This monk doesn't seems to know Abhidhamma. He seems to say "keep things simple don't bother to learn".
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6222
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Abhidhamma teachings in the Suttas

Post by confusedlayman »

polaris wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:38 pm This monk doesn't seems to know Abhidhamma. He seems to say "keep things simple don't bother to learn".
if u cant even learn sutta how can u learn abhidhamma. read the basics.. graduate from play school before going to phd study... thats what he said.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Post Reply