Is color inherent in rupa?

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Hanzze
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by Hanzze » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:19 am

DAWN wrote:
Hanzze wrote:I guess here one must be carefull not to end as a counciousnessless being or a formless being. What ever he might reject, forgetting the other (or better the whole wheel of co-depending origin).
Internet is alrady a formless loka.
So here we are and still much colors :smile:

Maybe just the fine material world. Would there be the perception of color in the formless realms?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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DAWN
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by DAWN » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:12 am

Hanzze wrote:
DAWN wrote:
Hanzze wrote:I guess here one must be carefull not to end as a counciousnessless being or a formless being. What ever he might reject, forgetting the other (or better the whole wheel of co-depending origin).
Internet is alrady a formless loka.
So here we are and still much colors :smile:

Maybe just the fine material world. Would there be the perception of color in the formless realms?
I dont know :smile:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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gavesako
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by gavesako » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:11 pm

If you want a good discussion of this subject with historical references, see

Buddhist Atomism
The Theories of Paramanu and Kalapa in Post-canonical Buddhism
by Piya Tan

http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... m-piya.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

UhBaUnTaUh
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by UhBaUnTaUh » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:46 am

Namo Buddhaya


Hello. Can I join this topic ?

In Mulatika book said that Vaṇṇa, Gundha, and Rasa don't have in Arūpabhūmi.

However in Atthakatha book didn't seperate write in this case. They only said that Rūpakalāpa in Arūpabhūmi can have eight, nine, or ten qualities.

Ref at gatha 86 : http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/abh06 ... xml#para68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Happy y'all.

note: Wave is a mass of many Rūpakalāpas.
Last edited by UhBaUnTaUh on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Parking this account.

I have been moved to another account.

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Hanzze
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:57 am

Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View

To know that it is "that form (rupa)" is a delusion of mind (citta).
To perceive that it is that form is a delusion of perception (saññā).
To conceive that it is that form is a delusion of conceit (māna).
To view it as that form is a delusion of view (ditthi).
Modified and taken from A Manual of the Path Factors
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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mikenz66
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:17 am

Hi Hanzze,

The actual quote seems to have a rather different meaning:
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Path/ ... roups.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ledi Sayadaw wrote: Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View

Those who cannot differentiate the four elements in the head and who do not know that solidity, etc., in the head are elements, know the head as such only; they note it as the head only; they only think that it is the head; and they see it as the head only.

To know that it is the head is a delusion of mind (citta).
To perceive that it is the head is a delusion of perception (saññā).
To conceive that it is the head is a delusion of conceit (māna).
To view it as the head is a delusion of view (ditthi).
:anjali:
Mike

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Hanzze
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:20 am

Why do you think so? It's about "Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View" and modifyed that there is no additional "Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View" to hinder the message.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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mikenz66
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:30 am

I'm sorry, but I think that your changes give a completely opposite message from what Ledi Sayadaw intended, which is that to take concepts such as "head" as real is delusion. I'll leave others to read Ledi Sayadaw and decide for themselves.

In any case, this seems to be rather off the topic Abhidhamma view on colour.

:anjali:
Mike

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mikenz66
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:44 am

Here is some material from
A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma
by Anuruddha, Ed. Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=hxop ... ur&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 234
Chapter VI Compendium of Matter.

2 In Brief: Great Essentials and Derived Matter.
Matter is twofold, namely: the four great essentials, and material phenomenta derived from the four great essentials. These two constitute eleven categories.

3 In Detail: Concretely Produced matter.
How?
(1) Essential material phenomena: the earth element, the water element, the fire element, and the air element.
(2) Sensitive material phenomena: eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body.
(3) Objective material phenomena: visible form, etc ...


Bhikkhu Bodhi's commentary on: (2) Sensitive material phenomena.
  • What is conventionally spoken of in the Abhidhamma as the composite eye, a compound of various material phenomena. Among these is eye-sensitivity, the sensitive substance in the retina that registers light and colour and serves as a physical base for eye-door consciousness...
:anjali:
Mike

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Hanzze
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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?

Post by Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 am

mikenz66 wrote:I'm sorry, but I think that your changes give a completely opposite message from what Ledi Sayadaw intended, which is that to take concepts such as "head" as real is delusion. I'll leave others to read Ledi Sayadaw and decide for themselves.

In any case, this seems to be rather off the topic Abhidhamma view on colour.

:anjali:
Mike
You are right in regard of the head ("Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View")
And it is offtopic in regard of color but maybe useful in regard of understanding the head ("Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View")
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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