How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

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rhinoceroshorn
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How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Following this discussion: https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?p=580020#p580020

Particularly:


Image


We experience the rupa and arupa jhāna cittas by doing jhānas. How can devas from those realms experience our cittas?
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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DooDoot
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by DooDoot »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:11 pm We experience the rupa...by doing jhānas.
What exactly is the 'rupa' experienced in jhana? Why is rupa jhana called 'rupa jhana'? :shrug:
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:11 pmHow can devas from those realms experience our cittas?
The above question appears to only arise due to materialistic interpretation of Dhamma. While the above question is not particularly clear, the above question appears to possibly believe:

1. Rupa (physical body) is experienced in jhana

2. Devas do not have a physical body

3. Therefore how can devas experience jhana?

:rolleye:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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confusedlayman
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:34 pm
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:11 pm We experience the rupa...by doing jhānas.
What exactly is the 'rupa' experienced in jhana? Why is rupa jhana called 'rupa jhana'? :shrug:
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:11 pmHow can devas from those realms experience our cittas?
The above question appears to only arise due to materialistic interpretation of Dhamma. While the above question is not particularly clear, the above question appears to possibly believe:

1. Rupa (physical body) is experienced in jhana

2. Devas do not have a physical body

3. Therefore how can devas experience jhana?

:rolleye:
even brahmas have physical body they adjust their robes when come to see buddha
dont think
Inedible
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by Inedible »

If you really want to know what it is like to be a deva you should ask one. Or several. We can have the thread locked while you cultivate fourth jhana powers.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Inedible wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 am If you really want to know what it is like to be a deva you should ask one. Or several. We can have the thread locked while you cultivate fourth jhana powers.
:jumping:
I'll study the Abhidhamma better. The answer may be there.
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
Inedible
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Location: Iowa City
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by Inedible »

I thought that the point of bring a deva is that it is really good while it lasts, but that it never does. How does knowing more contribute to seeking Nibbana?
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DooDoot
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Re: How can rupa/arupa devas experience sense-sphere cittas?

Post by DooDoot »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:02 am I'll study the Abhidhamma better. The answer may be there.
Keep searching, like Kevatta in DN 11.
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:48 am even brahmas have physical body they adjust their robes when come to see buddha
In which sutta? Thanks. Regardless, u appear be saying your brother in wandering (R-Horn) is wrong? Or what exactly are you saying, ConfusedLayMan? :shrug: Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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