Can an Arahant cry?

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Zom
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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by Zom » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:50 am

Did Buddha cry because of the greatest compassion for numerous beings? :reading:

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by jcsuperstar » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:51 am

Zom wrote:Did Buddha cry because of the greatest compassion towards numerous beings? :reading:
no idea
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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by Zom » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:54 am

As ajahn Thanissaro notices, Arahant has gone even beyond such phenomenon as dispassion. And crying, I think, is always somehow connected with some passion. For example, with that passion-and-delight for Dhamma (that is mentioned in some suttas, and that arahants no longer have).

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by PeterB » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

How many Arahants can cry on the head of a pin ?

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by jcsuperstar » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:11 pm

PeterB wrote:How many Arahants can cry on the head of a pin ?
6?
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by alan » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:34 am

..
Last edited by alan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:59 am

Greetings,

OK... yes... some people find the question irrelevant.

Be that as it may, it is what it is, so let's either leave this topic alone or get...

:focus:

Thanks for your co-operation.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by jcsuperstar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:39 am

i don't think it is a question that can just be easily answered. that's why i asked about just what is crying and how does it happen. is it even a matter of citta? etc you cant answer doest an arahant do X until you define X and it seems here we have different opinions to what causes crying etc. so the question cant be answered then.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by Ben » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:19 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Give him some strong chillies and see. :stirthepot:
:goodpost:

Does the biological act of crying necessitate a certain citta as its foundation?

Metta,
Retro. :)
My opinion is probably not. I think it would depend on the mindstate. Some people while experiencing rapture (piti) express tears and the cittas associated with piti are very different to the cittas associated with unwholesome cittas where one is crying from gross aversion and or craving.
I remember reading a sutta, which I am having difficulty locating at the moment, where the Buddha declares that an arahant no longer cries. Unfortunately, I don't remember seeing a corresponding explanation in CMA - but I could be wrong.
If I locate that sutta or find a reference to the Abhidhamma or one of its commentaries, I will append it to this thread.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by son of dhamma » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:05 am

Arahants are still composed of the four elements :reading: , including water or the element of fluidity. Technically and for all purposes, conditions that are utterly external could cause the element of fluidity in an Arahant to make as tears. Is this a good base to discuss on, now?
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by UnboundMetta » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:15 pm

All becomings cause stress, because they come from Ignorance.

ARAHANTS by Definition are FULLY ENLIGHTENED.
They have completely overcome the Fetter if Ignorance.

Tears are becomings...

Therefore tears come from Ignorance.

KARMIC CONCLUSION & CAUSE & EFFECT TELL US CLEARLY!

ARAHANTS DO NOT CRY!!!!!

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by AgarikaJ » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:20 pm

UnboundMetta wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:15 pm
All becomings cause stress, because they come from Ignorance.

ARAHANTS by Definition are FULLY ENLIGHTENED.
They have completely overcome the Fetter if Ignorance.

Tears are becomings...

Therefore tears come from Ignorance.

KARMIC CONCLUSION & CAUSE & EFFECT TELL US CLEARLY!

ARAHANTS DO NOT CRY!!!!!
I thought so as well, and there was a lengthy discussion about the subject of Arahants underlying the influence of Kamma on here just a short while ago.

I just read a very interesting passage in Stillness Flowing, the biography of Ajahn Chah (written by Ajahn Jayasaro), p.720:
https://www.abhayagiri.org/books/617-stillness-flowing
Many arahants, from the time of the Buddha onwards, have left the world in similarly uplifting ways; some, like Ven. Ānanda even gracing their departure with a display of psychic powers.
But this has never been the norm. Indeed, Ven. Mahā Moggallāna, one of the Buddha’s two chief disciples, died at the hands of a group of brigands, ‘who pounded his bones until they were as small as grains of rice’. In the modern period, two of Luang Pu Mun’s most revered disciples died in a plane crash, and some years later, another came to his end in a car accident. Countless others have died after painful illnesses.
These examples make it clear that enlightenment gives no automatic protection from protracted illness or violent death. In their final lifetime, arahants must work through any unresolved kamma committed in previous lives.
This was true of the Buddha himself. He linked the injury he sustained, when a rock was thrown down at him from a mountain by his evil cousin, to old kamma.
Over and above the more measurable physical factors leading to Luang Por’s last years of illness, his disciples have always considered kamma to be culprit-in-chief. He himself, as mentioned above, viewed it in that way.
Was Ajahn Chah enlightened and maybe even an Arahant?

His illness during his last years certainly made him react in ways which were quite obviously fully involuntarily and not different from 'normal' humans afflicted with fluid buildup around the frontal lobes; he certainly was able to cry then and there was nothing super-human about his illness progressing and his bodily or mental reactions to it.

Discuss!
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by jmccoy » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:31 am

There's only one way to find out.
:)

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Re: Can an Arahant cry?

Post by WorldTraveller » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:17 am

Ajahn Maha Bowa cried publicly. He claimed to be an Arahant. However, I'm very sceptical about Thai Arahants. Their Arahant cert is very easy to get :jumping:
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

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