The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

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Coëmgenu
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The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

Postby Coëmgenu » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:44 pm

"The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment."

What does the title of this thread mean? This belief in Abhidhamma is more often criticized than praised on Buddhist internet forums. I would like provide a counterbalance to that, ideally with this thread. I would like to see an Abhidhammika's insider-perspective on these two questions, more specifically:

1) "why" does the arising of the four paths endure for only one mind-moment, as in, how is this explained to occur?

and 2) what does this mean for practitioners?

and, if you will forgive me to be greedy for information, where can I find relevant sections of the Abhidhammatthasaṇgaha, or another text you would advise, that deal with this?

Thank you for your time :anjali: .
神足示現者,
世尊隨其所應,而示現入禪定正受,陵虛至東方,作四威儀,
行、住、坐、臥,入火三昧,出種種火光,青、黃、赤、白、
紅、頗梨色,水火俱現, 或身下出火,身上出水,身上出火,
身下出水,周圓四方亦復如是。

SarathW
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Re: The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

Postby SarathW » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:57 am

Each of these four supramundane stages involves two phases. One is the "path" (magga) that eradicates the fetters, the other is the "fruit" (phala), moments of supramundane consciousness that result from the path, made possible by the path's work of eradication. The fruit is the enjoyment made available by the work of the path. The fruit can be entered and enjoyed many times after the appropriate path has been reached. The noble disciple determines to enter the fruit, then develops insight until he does so. The highest fruit is the fruit of arahantship. The arahant knows with certainty that his mind is devoid of defilements. He has penetrated the Four Noble Truths. He becomes neither despondent nor elated through contact with the eight worldly conditions — gain and loss, honor and dishonor, happiness and misery, praise and blame. He is free from sorrow, stainless, and safe. "Free from sorrow" because he no more weeps and laments; "stainless" because he has no more defilements; "safe" because there is no more birth for him.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Re: The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

Postby theY » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:12 pm

Vipassanā (insight meditation) is magga (path), too. Because magga-bhāvanā (medittion/development) is sīla,samādhi, and bhāvanā. So, magga is not just one moment.

But one mind moment is ariya's comments about their enlightened moment. You can see in ādittapariyāya sutta, too.

"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate (virajjati[=no rāga=notaṇhā]/magga). Through dispassion, he is fully released (=vimutti[ta-suffix=past verb]/phala). With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released ' (vimuttamīti ñāṇam hoti/paccavekkhṇañāṇaṃ). He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Practitioner practices lokiya-magga without any break to be an expert. So after his magga complete perfectly, practitioner, who become to be ariya (professor), must content ariya-skill in every moment of him. every thinking of him must has perfect sīla, perfect samādhi, and perfect paññā. However, we can destroy kilesa just one time per enlighten step (4 ariya). So magga can arise to destroy kilesa just one time per path. After that no that kilesa anymore. So magga have not arise anymore, too, because of nothing to do--no kilesa to destroy.

So, in sangaha wrote: https://ballwarapol.github.io/sangaha/c ... tm?#10-215

Screenshot from 2017-09-07 22-11-27.png
Screenshot from 2017-09-07 22-11-27.png (41.97 KiB) Viewed 144 times


For the other references, (however I think that sutta that I quoted above is clear because all references wrote follow to above sutta):

~950th buddhist era:
See 2 last chapters of visuddhimagga, especially sotāpannapuggalakathā in purification by Knowledge and Vision:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf

~230th buddhist era:
parihānikatha in kathavatthu-abhidhamma, because if kilesa of arahanta can arise again, so his magga can arise again, too, to destroy that rebirth kilesa.

Many references appear in commentary, too. But above reference is the most perfect.
Last edited by theY on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/2016/09/tipitaka-memorization-is-rule-of-monks.html

Saengnapha
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Re: The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

Postby Saengnapha » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:22 am

Coëmgenu wrote:"The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment."

What does the title of this thread mean? This belief in Abhidhamma is more often criticized than praised on Buddhist internet forums. I would like provide a counterbalance to that, ideally with this thread. I would like to see an Abhidhammika's insider-perspective on these two questions, more specifically:

1) "why" does the arising of the four paths endure for only one mind-moment, as in, how is this explained to occur?

and 2) what does this mean for practitioners?

and, if you will forgive me to be greedy for information, where can I find relevant sections of the Abhidhammatthasaṇgaha, or another text you would advise, that deal with this?

Thank you for your time :anjali: .

Can you quote the passage in the Abhidhamma where this is stated, please?
Can you also quote a criticism that has been leveled at this statement?

I would like to see the context of both so I can further understand what the criticisms are all about.

Thanks.......

theY
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:07 pm
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Re: The arising of the four paths endures for only one mind-moment

Postby theY » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:29 am

I have more understanding in the question, so I re-edit to add more reference again. In the past, I thought the question owner asked for abhidhammatthasaṇgaha's page. I am sorry.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/2016/09/tipitaka-memorization-is-rule-of-monks.html


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