2 categories: Madhaymaka and Cittamatra

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sacha G
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2 categories: Madhaymaka and Cittamatra

Post by Sacha G » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:59 am

Hi
I've read in a recent post that teachers advocating the idea of an unborn consciousness were tending towards Mahayana.
I think the idea should be precised, since Mahayana in the form of Madhyamaka doesn't admit such a consciousness.
They say "everything is empty" not "everything is mind".
What's more, I think madhyamaka fits nicely with the suttas, and cittamatra doesn't, which doesn't mean that one is wrong and the other right. When one comes back to experience, both might be different ways of saying one thing.
Sacha G
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Akuma
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Re: 2 categories: Madhaymaka and Cittamatra

Post by Akuma » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:13 pm

Im still wondering what Vajrayanis mean if they say Cittamatra. Ive read in several Vajrayana books already stuff about Cittamatra that is at least not conform to the Yogacara that was created by Vasubandhu and Asanga.
In any case if those would say "everything is mind" what they mean is just that which the mind reflects is of the nature of mind, whereas other schools held the view that the objects have a different nature. In thsi context they speak of the non-duality of citta and its object sinc eboth are of the same nature and occur in the same moment, while other schools held a duality of the two.
There is no unborn consciousness doctrine in the original Yogacara texts tho. Theres a text by Jamie Hubbard called "Tathagathagarbha, Emptiness and Monism" which contains among other things the interpretation of a seemingly Monist TTG text by a Rinpoche which might shed some light on the misunderstanding.

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Will
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Re: 2 categories: Madhaymaka and Cittamatra

Post by Will » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:31 pm

Dharma Wheel has more folk familiar with Mahayana than here.

Lusthaus has a good, clarifying article on Yogacara: http://www.acmuller.net/yogacara/articles/intro-uni.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May all seek, find and follow the Path of selflessness.

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ground
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Re: 2 categories: Madhaymaka and Cittamatra

Post by ground » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:51 am

Sacha G wrote:What's more, I think madhyamaka fits nicely with the suttas, and cittamatra doesn't, which doesn't mean that one is wrong and the other right.
The suttas don't advocate papanca but the contrary. Therefore neither of these philosophies fit.

kind regards

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