Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Antaradhana
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by Antaradhana » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:22 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:21 pm
Antaradhana wrote:There is no self that would be eternal or annihilated.
(smacks you with a stick)

:shrug:
You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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cappuccino
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:23 pm

Antaradhana wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
Antaradhana wrote:There is no self that would be eternal or annihilated.
(smacks you with a stick)

:shrug:
You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.
you should recognize your own existence

& deal in reality

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Antaradhana
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by Antaradhana » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:28 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:23 pm
Antaradhana wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

(smacks you with a stick)

:shrug:
You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.
you should recognize your own existence

& deal in reality
Puggala is a convention of communication in the world. Even Buddha used the pronoun "I", for the convenience of communication in the world. But this does not mean that the self exists in reality. In reality, there are only currents of impersonal and conditioned phenomena.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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cappuccino
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm

Annihilation is extreme

The middle position is advisable

But eternity isn't the other extreme

Eternal identity is the other extreme

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Antaradhana
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by Antaradhana » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm
annihilation is extreme

the middle position is advisable

but eternity isn't the other extreme

eternal identity is the other extreme
The destruction and eternal existence - implies the presence of self. Whereas the self does not exist and never existed, only suffering exists. Since there is no self, there is nothing that could abide forever or be destroyed.


“Only suffering exists, but there is none who is suffering;
Actions are committed, but there is no one who commits them;
There is a nibbana, but there is no one who enters into it;
The path exists, but you cannot find the one who follows it”.

Visuddhimagga
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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cappuccino
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:44 pm

you already eternally exist / existed

nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate

that's the right way to think of it

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Antaradhana
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by Antaradhana » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:03 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:44 pm
you already eternally exist / existed

nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate

that's the right way to think of it
There are volatile, suffering, and impersonal dhammas that exist due to conditioning by past dhammas.
The existence, eternity, or annihilation of personality is a fallacy.
That's the right way to think of it.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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cappuccino
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:31 pm

you already exist

nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate

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robertk
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by robertk » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:46 am

Antaradhana wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm
annihilation is extreme

the middle position is advisable

but eternity isn't the other extreme

eternal identity is the other extreme
The destruction and eternal existence - implies the presence of self. Whereas the self does not exist and never existed, only suffering exists. Since there is no self, there is nothing that could abide forever or be destroyed.


“Only suffering exists, but there is none who is suffering;
Actions are committed, but there is no one who commits them;
There is a nibbana, but there is no one who enters into it;
The path exists, but you cannot find the one who follows it”.

Visuddhimagga
:anjali:

sentinel
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by sentinel » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:38 pm

The question is you do not know what is nibbana unless already attained to it assuming there is something called nibbana .
Speculating is all one can do .
:coffee:

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cappuccino
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:04 pm

Nirvana is "the cool"

one can feel cool, by air conditioning

confusedlayman
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by confusedlayman » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:09 pm

Ceisiwr wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:47 am
Greetings


Do you suggest then that arahants are unconscious, unaware?

or are they fully consciouss and fully aware?

What is the true refuge? Its complete awareness, the unconditioned
"And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge?

34. "When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge.

35. "Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, 20 if they have the desire to learn."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... tml#island" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And

"Therefore, Ananda, each of you should remain with your self as an island, your self as your refuge, without anything else as a refuge. Remain with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as your refuge, without anything else as a refuge. And how does a monk remain with his self as an island, his self as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge? How does he remain with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This is how a monk remains with his self as an island, his self as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge. For those who — now or after I am gone — remain with their self as an island, their self as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, they will be the highest of the monks who desire training."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... tml#island" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pure deep Awareness is unconditioned, it is the true refuge

the unconditioned is the true safety, an island

The buddhas teachings are always pointing us to this deep, subtle awarness

When one is completely aware, there is no sense of self, no I making. There is no ignorance about dhammas as you see them as they are so there is no craving, no clinging and so there is no dependent origination anymore, no birth no death, no pain or fear and so no dukkha

There is just pure awareness of everything, seeing things as they are

Peaceful, calm and unconditioned


Still, flowing water


Metta


:anjali:
Pure awareness/bare awareness looks permanent when u detach yourself from all ever changing impermanent cognizable stuffs. but that awareness itself is impermanent and non self or temporary. awareness is supported by blood flow to brain and there are regions of mind that is responsible for awareness. if u use anestisia, you will lose that awareness itself but you won't die. which means non-awareness can happen even when u are alive. if u can't maintain awareness in this life then how its possible to exist when u die. unconciousness state like experience is what happens as final goal if I am not wrong. unconciousness state means no consciousness so no concept of world. when there is no consciousness, there is no experience itself. it is uncreated state, unbecoming, non changing, permanent, not dependent of anything. it is peaceful because it is like still lake. there is no consciousness activity so no stress.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

Post by salayatananirodha » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:46 pm

no, consciousness is conditioned
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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