the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:27 pm

DNS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:15 pm
chownah wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:12 pm
Consider: If wild animals is the best way to go for animals then is it better for people to live like wild animals?....why not let nature take its course (as you say) when it come to humans?
chownah
Animals are in a woeful state (according to Buddhism). Humans are higher than that. According to Buddhism it is wrong to kill or cause to kill. Does meat eating, contribute to killing? That is the debate in this thread and there are various views on this matter.
I'm not going to second guess what the buddha said. It looks like you are moralizing now (isn't what you say an expression of morality which is seen as a vital part of what the buddha taught?).....but I am not. I am just stating what I can to the best of my abilities determine to be facts I'll leave the moralizing to others.

Can humans (perhaps through metta) make a difference in the woeful state of animals? Does providing food and shelter help to make a difference in the woeful state of animals? (Please note that I am not moralizing here....not pointing to anything being right or wrong).
chownah

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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:59 am

A "lifestyle" of being tortured on a farm is better than a wild animal?? That's interesting...it's also false. Furthermore, wild animals on the savanna, and what happens with them, is completely and totally irrelevant to how humans abuse and kill animals. The comparison as done above is not appropriate. It is based on a complete ignorance of what is ethical and unethical.

Dinsdale
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Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:28 am

DNS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:49 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:52 am
DNS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:56 am
Oh, okay, so your point might be (?) that domesticated animals have a lower infant mortality rate and therefore a better "quality" of life? Domestic animals receive more care from their owners either due to affection (as in pets) or because of their economic value (farm animals) and receive visits from a veterinarian as needed and therefore tend to have longer lives than their counterparts in the wild.

But from a vegetarian perspective, there would still be a killer, someone killing the animal for food, as part of the meat industry chain of events; someone placing an order, store purchasing more meat, slaughterhouse killing more, requesting more animals from the cattle farmer.
Looks like another :strawman: to me.

"We look after animals till they are fat enough, then kill them." :shrug:
Hey! I'm on your side. :tongue: I was just trying to figure out what chownah's "point" was, I was not agreeing with him.
Sure, I realised that. I'm just bemused by the succession of lame arguments attempting to justify the buying of meat.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:41 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:27 pm
I'm not going to second guess what the buddha said. It looks like you are moralizing now (isn't what you say an expression of morality which is seen as a vital part of what the buddha taught?).....but I am not. I am just stating what I can to the best of my abilities determine to be facts I'll leave the moralizing to others.
Morality and ethics are central to the discussion. :shrug:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:35 am

seeker242 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:59 am
A "lifestyle" of being tortured on a farm is better than a wild animal?? That's interesting...it's also false. Furthermore, wild animals on the savanna, and what happens with them, is completely and totally irrelevant to how humans abuse and kill animals. The comparison as done above is not appropriate. It is based on a complete ignorance of what is ethical and unethical.

:goodpost:

I once lived in the country next door to a farm. The way that the animals were treated was dreadful.

.

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