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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:02 am
by Santi253
Aloka wrote:
Santi253 wrote: This video shows how vegans can be self-centered buttheads. Watch them complain about tofu with trace amounts of cheese, and then complain some more about Whole Foods employees having the gall to ask you about your weekend. Vegans who care about animals to the point of hating on other people miss the point of being vegan.

And indeed one could criticise others for most of ones day, saying "watch these self centred buttheads" in just about any situation in life, while continually neglecting one's own delusions.

:shrug:
I care about how the general public perceives things that relate to environmental, animal rights, and personal health issues. Vegan extremism is hurtful to the cause.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:40 am
by Aloka
There are extremists in most walks of life these days (including in Buddhism), so sometimes we need to focus on what is helpful and positive.




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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:44 pm
by Santi253
Why am I not a vegan? Just as most diets fail, most people who try going vegan or vegetarian end up eating meat again.

If going meat-free is a healthier, more ethical choice, why insist on being so restrictive as to prevent a person from actually being able to practice it?

Less restrictive than veganism, vegetarianism is healthier and more humane than the typical American diet. The Buddha taught against killing animals, not eggs and dairy.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:10 pm
by binocular
Santi253 wrote:The Buddha taught against killing animals
Some cheeses are made on the basis of enzymes from the stomachs of calves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:54 pm
by chownah
binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:The Buddha taught against killing animals
Some cheeses are made on the basis of enzymes from the stomachs of calves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
If you live in america, a list of rennetless cheese making companies:
http://cheese.joyousliving.com/CheeseListBrand.aspx

chownah

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:56 pm
by chownah
Santi253 wrote:Why am I not a vegan? Just as most diets fail, most people who try going vegan or vegetarian end up eating meat again.

If going meat-free is a healthier, more ethical choice, why insist on being so restrictive as to prevent a person from actually being able to practice it?

Less restrictive than veganism, vegetarianism is healthier and more humane than the typical American diet. The Buddha taught against killing animals, not eggs and dairy.
Yes, and the typical american diet is healthier and more humane than the typical eskimo or inuit diet.
chownah

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:03 pm
by Aloka
Santi253 wrote:Why am I not a vegan? Just as most diets fail, most people who try going vegan or vegetarian end up eating meat again.{/quote]
Less restrictive than veganism, vegetarianism is healthier and more humane than the typical American diet. The Buddha taught against killing animals, not eggs and dairy
That's nonsense ,I've been vegetarian/vegan for most of my life and so have several of my friends. None of us have ever gone back to eating meat or fish again. (I don't live in the USA).

Calves are killed so that human's can take the milk of their lactating mothers to drink or make cheese, didn't you know that? I used to live next door to a farm and it was heartbreaking the way that the cattle and their calves were treated.

Not all eggs are unfertilised either. If they're fertilised eggs which are eaten - technically its taking a life.

I used to eat eggs but I don't any more because I don't particularly like them.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:56 pm
by Santi253
binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:The Buddha taught against killing animals
Some cheeses are made on the basis of enzymes from the stomachs of calves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
Yup. I try to avoid them, like parmesan.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:56 pm
by Santi253
chownah wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Why am I not a vegan? Just as most diets fail, most people who try going vegan or vegetarian end up eating meat again.

If going meat-free is a healthier, more ethical choice, why insist on being so restrictive as to prevent a person from actually being able to practice it?

Less restrictive than veganism, vegetarianism is healthier and more humane than the typical American diet. The Buddha taught against killing animals, not eggs and dairy.
Yes, and the typical american diet is healthier and more humane than the typical eskimo or inuit diet.
chownah
I don't live in an environment where an eskimo diet is necessary.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 pm
by Santi253
Aloka wrote: That's nonsense
The Humane Research Council is a non-profit that uses market research techniques to assess public opinions related to animal issues. Their mission is to provide information animal protection organizations can use to more effectively spread their messages. And for this study, they recruited a group of top flight social scientists to design a survey to examine differences between current and ex-vegetarians and vegans.

The study sample was unique for a couple of reasons. First it was huge – 11,399 adults of all dietary stripes which were recruited from a representative group of Americans maintained by Harris Interactive (part of the company that conducts the highly respected Harris Poll). Second, while not perfectly representative of the American public, it is a much closer representation of the population of the United States than other studies of our collective dietary choices. (While the sample was a bit older, wealthier, more educated, whiter, and more female that the general public, I was more impressed by how diverse it was.)...

• Going Back - Five out of six people who give up meat eventually abandon their vegetarian ways.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/an ... n-meat-why

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:01 pm
by Santi253
Aloka wrote: I used to eat eggs but I don't any more because I don't particularly like them.
Dairy and eggs are in so many products, including veggie burgers, that it's hard to avoid them entirely and still get adequate nutrition.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:07 pm
by Sam Vara
Aloka wrote:
Not all eggs are unfertilised either. If they're fertilised eggs which are eaten - technically its taking a life.

I used to eat eggs but I don't any more because I don't particularly like them.
In addition, unfertilised egg production requires the deaths of thousands of chicks, at least in most UK operations. The next generation of laying hens must be hatched and, because there is no way of sexing the unhatched chick, a batch is hatched. The males are useless to the farmer, and usually go live into the mincer for pig food etc.

Interesting point about not liking eggs. I used to eat them but gave them up when I became vegan about thirty-odd years ago. When I have since tried eggs from ethical sources (i.e. friends who keep hens as pets and therefore don't have the problems referred to above) I found they tasted disgusting. Maybe I lost the enzymes, or something. Similarly, even the smell of milk or cheese is strongly off-putting.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:09 pm
by Sam Vara
Santi253 wrote:
Aloka wrote: I used to eat eggs but I don't any more because I don't particularly like them.
Dairy and eggs are in so many products, including veggie burgers, that it's hard to avoid them entirely and still get adequate nutrition.
Not so here in the UK. I have avoided eggs with ease for over thirty years, and I am fit and well. It's just a matter of reading labels.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:16 pm
by DNS
Santi253 wrote: • Going Back - Five out of six people who give up meat eventually abandon their vegetarian ways.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/an ... n-meat-why
I've heard of those studies, but something doesn't sound right. I'm guessing there are some flaws in that research. For example, they could be counting as "vegetarian" people who just try it out for a week or two, perhaps to experiment or to lose some weight, etc. Or they could be counting as "vegetarian" those who eat fish and chicken. I can recall at least a couple of times someone telling me that they are vegetarian while they are chewing on a chicken wing. They should at least put the chicken wing down while making that claim. :tongue:

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:32 pm
by Sam Vara
David N. Snyder wrote: I can recall at least a couple of times someone telling me that they are vegetarian while they are chewing on a chicken wing. They should at least put the chicken wing down while making that claim. :tongue:
If they had their mouth full, maybe you misheard them saying that the chicken was vegetarian... ;)