the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:33 pm

Here is a good article which contains this:
https://www.theactivetimes.com/places-w ... onger-life
Where exactly do these people live? You may be surprised to learn that some of them actually reside in the U.S. In Loma Linda, California, members of the Adventist community outlive the average American by 10 years.

Then there are the people from Ikaria in Greece: compared to Americans, they tend to live eight years longer, experience 20 percent less cancer and 50 percent less heart disease, and have almost no cases of dementia.

Sardinia, Italy is home to more male centenarians than anywhere else on earth; the world’s longest- lived women come from Okinawa, Japan; and in Nicoya, Costa Rica, compared to Americans, people are more than twice as likely to reach the age of 90.
chownah

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:38 pm

Here is an article which claims that asian americans live longer than the people in the countries that they came from.....I'm sceptical of that finding....but I don't now for sure.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/worl ... ing-people
chownah

binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:27 pm

What's the point of living longer (or healthier, for that matter), if one is miserable anyway?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:33 am

binocular wrote:What's the point of living longer (or healthier, for that matter), if one is miserable anyway?
To get enlightenment and stop being miserable! :meditate:

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:26 am

binocular wrote:What's the point of living longer (or healthier, for that matter), if one is miserable anyway?
When the Buddha taught that life is dukkha, he meant that material things are ultimately unsatisfying, not that everything in life is miserable.

It's a common misconception that you don't need to take care of your health, because you'll just die sooner anyway. It's just as likely, if not more likely, that you will live the last years of your life in disability and pain if you don't take better care of your health toady.

Everyone dies, everyone gets sick, but we can take steps to have less sickness and misery in our lives, which also creates less of a burden and less sadness for our loves ones.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:56 am



I don’t agree with PETA about everything, but the way that animals are treated by the meat industry is sociopathic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald ... to_animals
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:50 am

According to Master Sheng-Yen, the way that animals are treated and killed by the meat industry is bad for our health, because it contaminates the meat with toxins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unD2kFO4SXI

The available science bears this out:
But there's a side to this that's more alarming than the threat of tasteless meat. The Journal of Animal Science and researchers at the University of Milan's Faculty of Veterinary Medicine recently confirmed that fear experienced during slaughter significantly elevates meat's levels of stress hormones—adrenaline, cortisol, and other steroids.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... in/244127/
Cortisol is one of the main causes of depression and other health problems:
The stress hormone, cortisol, is public health enemy number one. Scientists have known for years that elevated cortisol levels: interfere with learning and memory, lower immune function and bone density, increase weight gain, blood pressure, cholesterol, heart disease... The list goes on and on.

Chronic stress and elevated cortisol levels also increase risk for depression, mental illness, and lower life expectancy. This week, two separate studies were published in Science linking elevated cortisol levels as a potential trigger for mental illness and decreased resilience—especially in adolescence.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... enemy-no-1
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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justindesilva
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by justindesilva » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:54 am

[quote="Santi253"]According to Master Sheng-Yen, the way that animals are treated and killed by the meat industry is bad for our health, because it contaminates the meat with toxins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unD2kFO4SXI

The available science bears this out:
Way back in 1960s a Muslim medical practitioner explained the reasons for their way of killing cattle for best. It explained that in killing the animal they cut the extra jugular vein so that the blood drains out without going in to the flesh thus ensuring the toxins made in the system by the emotion of fear of death is flushed out of the meat. This he explained is a religious ( Moslem) advice.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:40 pm

One thing I like about Mahayana Buddhism is it seems to have a stronger tradition of vegetarianism, which seems closer to what the Buddha originally taught.

If the Buddha taught that it's misconduct to kill animals for meat or to profit from the killing of animals for meat, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:23 pm

When I learned that egg whites and nonfat dairy do not cause the same health problems that meat causes, I realized that I wouldn't want to be vegan.
Q: Other plant-based advocates recommend against all animal products, including nonfat dairy and even egg white. Why does Ornish Lifestyle Medicine allow these foods?

A: It is true that a plant-based approach is not only a powerful, healthy choice for you individually, but it’s also a powerful, healthy choice for your planet. Eating a plant-based diet decreases your carbon footprint. When Dr. Ornish began researching a lifestyle approach to reversing heart disease 35 years ago, it was based on a plant-based, whole food approach; however it did include limited options for egg whites and non-fat dairy. Randomized, controlled trials showed that limited amounts of these optional foods, which may add enjoyment, convenience, and comfort, do not decrease any of the health benefits one would get from a wholly plant-based diet.
https://www.ornish.com/zine/animal-prot ... conut-oil/
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:01 am

Santi253 wrote:, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah

justindesilva
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by justindesilva » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:35 am

chownah wrote:
Santi253 wrote:, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah
It also is possible the society who were their contemporaries did not live on vegetables but on meat and flesh. They would not have been following Buddhist principles. As such for the purpose of nutrition in non availability of veges non vege foods seems to make sense. This can be guessed by contemplating on other suttas which reflect their society.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:21 pm

chownah wrote:
Santi253 wrote:, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah
It's because of Theravada vegetarians like Bhikkhu Bodhi that I've come to this conclusion on the Buddha's original disciples. He makes a convincing argument that, if we have a choice on what to eat and not to eat, it would be better for us to not eat animals.

This makes perfect sense, since the Buddha taught it's misconduct to kill animals for meat or to profit from the selling of meat.

According to Bhikkhu Bodhi, when you make the free-willed choice to buy meat for yourself, you are giving the money necessary for the next animal to be killed.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:32 pm

Santi253 wrote:
chownah wrote:
Santi253 wrote:, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah
It's because of Theravada vegetarians like Bhikkhu Bodhi that I've come to this conclusion on the Buddha's original disciples. He makes a convincing argument that, if we have a choice on what to eat and not to eat, it would be better for us to not eat animals.

This makes perfect sense, since the Buddha taught it's misconduct to kill animals for meat or to profit from the selling of meat.

According to Bhikkhu Bodhi, when you make the free-willed choice to buy meat for yourself, you are giving the money necessary for the next animal to be killed.
You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:10 pm

chownah wrote: You can only see one reason....that does not mean that it is the only reason.
chownah
You say the opposite of everything I ever say on this forum, without providing any real substantive argument for anything. My three-year-old doesn't even do that.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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