the great vegetarian debate

[Spiny Norman]

wow, really? is it true? the point is not killing? So the animals who are on the dishes are served alive?

I'd feel like a hypocrite if I bought meat. I'm a Buddhist so I'm not going to kill animals or butcher them, but I'd be expecting somebody else to do it - it doesn't feel right to me.

[Alex123]

wow, really? is it true? the point is not killing? So the animals who are on the dishes are served alive?

I'd feel like a hypocrite if I bought meat. I'm a Buddhist so I'm not going to kill animals or butcher them, but I'd be expecting somebody else to do it - it doesn't feel right to me.

But aren't many or most herbivores going to be eaten by some predators anyway? It is their fate, and it sucks. Samsara is dukkha.

[Ceisiwr]

wow, really? is it true? the point is not killing? So the animals who are on the dishes are served alive?

Ideally no one should kill, however if someone had invited you for a meal and offers you left over meat then there is no harm in eating it, since it was going in the bin anyway. In fact to reject it because of the "idealism" of being a vegetarian would be more unskilful than eating the meat, since it would be clinging to rites and rituals. You would be acting out of aversion and delusion


Hence why the Buddha ate meat and allowed his monks to do so, but forbade them from killing or having animals killed for them.

[Ceisiwr]

Of course a easy way out of all this is for humans to develop lab grown meat


No animals killed and all the nutrition, everyone's happy

[Alex123]

Ideally no one should kill, however if someone had invited you for a meal and offers you left over meat then there is no harm in eating it, since it was going in the bin anyway. In fact to reject it because of the "idealism" of being a vegetarian would be more unskilful than eating the meat, since it would be clinging to rites and rituals. You would be acting out of aversion and delusion .

There are people who are starving and would love to eat anything, and yet some modern and affluent people can just throw away food because they are morally against it. Terrible waste!

I've probably been raised not in a rich environment because I've heard phrases such as "Finish your plate! Kids are starving in Africa". Sometimes some people can't be too picky about food or throw it away.

[Ceisiwr]

Ideally no one should kill, however if someone had invited you for a meal and offers you left over meat then there is no harm in eating it, since it was going in the bin anyway. In fact to reject it because of the "idealism" of being a vegetarian would be more unskilful than eating the meat, since it would be clinging to rites and rituals. You would be acting out of aversion and delusion .

There are people who are starving and would love to eat anything, and yet some modern and affluent people can just throw away food because they are morally against it. Terrible waste!

I've probably been raised pretty poor because I've heard phrases such as "Finish your plate! Kids are starving in Africa".

That's very true

Unfortunately the capitalist system is terribly wasteful and inefficient

I did read somewhere that there is actually enough food available to give every humans 3000 calories, and so make us all fat

Sadly I can't cite it though

[Aloka]

wow, really? is it true? the point is not killing? So the animals who are on the dishes are served alive?

Ideally no one should kill, however if someone had invited you for a meal and offers you left over meat then there is no harm in eating it, since it was going in the bin anyway. In fact to reject it because of the "idealism" of being a vegetarian would be more unskilful than eating the meat, since it would be clinging to rites and rituals..

I was a vegetarian long before I was a Buddhist and I've disliked the taste of meat since I was a child. I could hardly have been 'clinging to rites and rituals' if I rejected it when I was at Primary school.

[Alex123]

I was a vegetarian long before I was a Buddhist and I've disliked the taste of meat since I was a child. I could hardly have been 'clinging to rites and rituals' if I rejected it when I was at Primary school.

You are so lucky that you could choose what to eat rather than to eat or go hungry. Not every person has the luxury to eat what they want and what tastes good.

[Aloka]

I was a vegetarian long before I was a Buddhist and I've disliked the taste of meat since I was a child. I could hardly have been 'clinging to rites and rituals' if I rejected it when I was at Primary school.

You are so lucky that you could choose what to eat rather than to eat or go hungry. Not every person has the luxury to eat what they want and what tastes good.

Who said I was allowed to choose ? My father went crazy when I retched at the taste of meat - and I wasn't offered an alternative.

.

[DNS]

I did read somewhere that there is actually enough food available to give every humans 3000 calories, and so make us all fat

Especially on a vegetarian agricultural system since you wouldn't have all that grain being used to feed cattle. There would be less cattle bred and more grain for humans. But you're right, there is also a distribution problem.

[DNS]

There are people who are starving and would love to eat anything, and yet some modern and affluent people can just throw away food because they are morally against it. Terrible waste!

This rarely happens. Most vegetarians make it known that they are vegetarian and no one serves them meat or left-overs, knowing that they are vegetarian. Once in a great while at a restaurant, I find out that the soup I am eating has animal stock in it or there is lard in my beans or some other by-product. I still eat it even though I am vegetarian, since I know it is no use to let it be thrown out.

[Mkoll]

Dear friends,

From this page:

Does the world produce enough food to feed everyone?

The world produces enough food to feed everyone. World agriculture produces 17 percent more calories per person today than it did 30 years ago, despite a 70 percent population increase. This is enough to provide everyone in the world with at least 2,720 kilocalories (kcal) per person per day according to the most recent estimate that we could find (FAO 2002, p.9). The principal problem is that many people in the world do not have sufficient land to grow, or income to purchase, enough food.

[nekete]

"(...)Many people question why vegetarianism is not stipulated in Theravada Buddhism. Monks rely on alms food, so they eat what they are given. Of course, they are free no to eat the meat which is offered, but purity is seen to lie more in accepting offerings without discriminating as to good and bad than in what one eats. The only prohibitions concerning meat are that if a bhikkhu knows or suspects that an animal has been killed specifically for his food, he may no accept it, raw meat and raw fish are proscribed as are the meats of certains animals, such as horse, dos, snake and elephant.

Some bhikkhus do choose to be vegetarian though in Thailand this can sometimes mean a lean diet and some abbots suggest to their lay supporters that it would be more skilfull do avoid offering meat to the bhikkhu sangha. Ajahn Sumeddho many years ago inspired the Bung Wai Supporters to start preparing vegetarian food in the wat(...)"

From the book Venerable Father: A life with Ajahn Chah by Paul Brieter.

That's the point.

[robertk]

"(...)Many people question

Some bhikkhus do choose to be vegetarian though in Thailand this can sometimes mean a lean diet and some abbots suggest to their lay supporters that it would be more skilfull do avoid offering meat to the bhikkhu sangha. Ajahn Sumeddho many years ago inspired the Bung Wai Supporters to start preparing vegetarian food in the wat(...)"

From the book Venerable Father: A life with Ajahn Chah by Paul Brieter.

That's the point.

and these lay supporters who give vegetarian food to monks are more skilful and wise than General Siha?

[Spiny Norman]

Hence why the Buddha ate meat and allowed his monks to do so, but forbade them from killing or having animals killed for them.

The clear intention of the 3-fold rule was to prevent additional / unecessary killing of animals for food, ie not adding to the demand for meat.

In a modern context the meat industry works on supply and demand, so buying meat is adding to the demand. So it seems that a modern lay-Buddhist buying meat is contravening the intention of the 3-fold rule.