the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:16 pm

binocular wrote: There's something you might want to brush off your shoulder, but it's not us.
Is it the truckload of dung you're heaping at me?
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Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:32 pm

I'm sorry you feel that way.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:34 pm

Santi253 wrote:Image

I'm already experiencing results on a plant-based diet, both in my emotional and physical health. I will not be dissuaded by bloviators and naysayers. It takes a really sad person to want to hold others back. I brush my shoulders of you.
If you feel we're holding you back here, then do feel free to stop making a show of your new nutritional dogmas. No one is forcing you to write nonsense here...

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:40 pm

lostitude wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Image

I'm already experiencing results on a plant-based diet, both in my emotional and physical health. I will not be dissuaded by bloviators and naysayers. It takes a really sad person to want to hold others back. I brush my shoulders of you.
If you feel we're holding you back here, then do feel free to stop making a show of your new nutritional dogmas. No one is forcing you to write nonsense here...
Nope. I've already posted scientifically verified information from mainstream sources.
Santi253 wrote:Image
It's like a fundamentalist Christian telling me that God put dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:46 am

binocular wrote:
chownah wrote:It seems to me that most of the people who are really into finding the scientific facts about various diets are usually unhealthy people. It seems to me that people who have overall really good health mostly just figure it out for themselves.
Yes ...
And microwaving does not qualify for cooking!
Yeah but they are great for reheating!

We shouldn't forget that there are alot of unhealthy people in the world who have not figured out how to eat a healthful diet. What are these people to do? We might think that if they in some way got more in touch with their bodies that the problem would be solved but we really have no evidence that this transition is possible. If people are unhealthy and they see that their diet seems to fit the idea of being unhealthy then doing some research on diet (which logically might include scientific stuff) seems like a good way forward for them. I think that at the same time they should look into how to be more intouch with their bodies in general through contemplation and physical activity....physical activity is very important too...and not just strenuous or aerobic activity but activity which develops sensitivity throughout the body.
chownah

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:42 am

chownah wrote: We shouldn't forget that there are alot of unhealthy people in the world who have not figured out how to eat a healthful diet. What are these people to do? We might think that if they in some way got more in touch with their bodies that the problem would be solved but we really have no evidence that this transition is possible.
chownah
lyndon taylor wrote: plant based diet reverses heart disease (we all know that the regular diet encourages heart disease)

http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-hea ... free-diet-
lyndon taylor wrote:Plant based diet is pretty well respected in the medical profession, Atkins diet, not so much. Plant based diet is purported to clear out your clogged arteries making bypass surgery unnecessary. My Cardiologist highly recommended it for my heart disease. Atkins diet is really dangerous because it only works if you eliminate almost all carbs, making your body unable to digest all the fat, add a small amount of carbs to that and you're just a dangerous high fat diet, no advantage to reducing carbs, you have to eliminate them for the Atkins diet to work, and even then Dr Atkins had heart disease and a heart attack, not really glowing praise.
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Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:32 am

chownah wrote:We shouldn't forget that there are alot of unhealthy people in the world who have not figured out how to eat a healthful diet. What are these people to do? We might think that if they in some way got more in touch with their bodies that the problem would be solved but we really have no evidence that this transition is possible.
Agreed, absolutely.
If people are unhealthy and they see that their diet seems to fit the idea of being unhealthy then doing some research on diet (which logically might include scientific stuff) seems like a good way forward for them. I think that at the same time they should look into how to be more intouch with their bodies in general through contemplation and physical activity....physical activity is very important too...and not just strenuous or aerobic activity but activity which develops sensitivity throughout the body.
Theoretically, this should work, but from what I've seen, these people tend to relate to their bodies through what the science they've read tells them; ie. they're still dependent on others to tell them what they feel.

However, relying on science (even at the expense of one's own insights) can also be a form in which the desire to belong and to be normal can manifest.
So the whole matter with changing one's eating regime might be a lot more complex than it seems at first.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:28 am

The private health insurance industry's profit model is based on patients getting sick as least often as possible, so that the insurer can avoid having to make payouts. What form of diet does Kaiser Permanente, America's largest health insurer, recommend for long-term health?
Kaiser Permanente encourages a plant-based diet, especially for those with high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease or obesity. It’s estimated that eating less meat and adding whole foods could reduce health care costs associated with the treatment of chronic disease.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 100031230/
THE PLANT-BASED DIET:
a healthier way to eat
Presented by Kaiser Permanente
https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/wp-c ... ooklet.pdf

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Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:49 am



This video shows how vegans can be self-centered buttheads. Watch them complain about tofu with trace amounts of cheese, and then complain some more about Whole Foods employees having the gall to ask you about your weekend. Vegans who care about animals to the point of hating on other people miss the point of being vegan.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:06 am

Santi253 wrote: This video shows how vegans can be self-centered buttheads. Watch them complain about tofu with trace amounts of cheese, and then complain some more about Whole Foods employees having the gall to ask you about your weekend. Vegans who care about animals to the point of hating on other people miss the point of being vegan.

And indeed one could criticise others for most of ones day, saying "watch these self centred buttheads" in just about any situation in life, while continually neglecting one's own delusions.

:shrug:

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:02 am

Aloka wrote:
Santi253 wrote: This video shows how vegans can be self-centered buttheads. Watch them complain about tofu with trace amounts of cheese, and then complain some more about Whole Foods employees having the gall to ask you about your weekend. Vegans who care about animals to the point of hating on other people miss the point of being vegan.

And indeed one could criticise others for most of ones day, saying "watch these self centred buttheads" in just about any situation in life, while continually neglecting one's own delusions.

:shrug:
I care about how the general public perceives things that relate to environmental, animal rights, and personal health issues. Vegan extremism is hurtful to the cause.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:40 am

There are extremists in most walks of life these days (including in Buddhism), so sometimes we need to focus on what is helpful and positive.




.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:44 pm

Why am I not a vegan? Just as most diets fail, most people who try going vegan or vegetarian end up eating meat again.

If going meat-free is a healthier, more ethical choice, why insist on being so restrictive as to prevent a person from actually being able to practice it?

Less restrictive than veganism, vegetarianism is healthier and more humane than the typical American diet. The Buddha taught against killing animals, not eggs and dairy.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:10 pm

Santi253 wrote:The Buddha taught against killing animals
Some cheeses are made on the basis of enzymes from the stomachs of calves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:54 pm

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:The Buddha taught against killing animals
Some cheeses are made on the basis of enzymes from the stomachs of calves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
If you live in america, a list of rennetless cheese making companies:
http://cheese.joyousliving.com/CheeseListBrand.aspx

chownah

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