the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DAWN
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:55 pm

BubbaBuddhist wrote:When ever omni/carnivores want to debate with my bad vegetarian self, I unbutton my shirt to reveal this:
Image

--bring out a carrot stick, growl, and loudly pop off a bite. End of debate.

BB
Thanks you a lot !

I will confirm myself in my vegan-ego and make some vegan t-shirt :pig: :namaste:
http://www.spreadshirt.fr/tee-shirt-per ... 185435%3As" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:06 pm

Hi LY,
LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Ben wrote:No, its not.

kind regards,

Ben
You've never ripped a line of primo ground beef before?

Here where I live, they call it "Bombay chuck." I've heard it's over 90% pure; none of that 30% fat street stuff.
I work a lot with food. I'm very careful regarding the quality of ingredients I buy whether it be for home or work.
If I am buying mince (ground beef) I ensure that it is premium quality. Anything less than premium quality I feed to my dogs.

With regards to spilling the contents and cleaning up - if the blood gets into fabrics such as clothes or tea towels, the stain will only set if it is washed in hot water. Soak in cold water with generic laundry powder.

I am much more careful when it comes to the liquid that comes out of chicken meat. It can contain nasties that can make you sick.

Always use special purpose cutting boards for different types of cooked and raw food to avoid cross-contamination and always ensure personal hygiene before and after food prep.
BTW, I have heard the term "Bombay Duck" but didn't know it referred to ground beef (beef mince)!
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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maverick
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Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by maverick » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:38 am

Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his usual diet like ?
Last edited by maverick on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, enough to be RELEASED.

The path is not about becoming a better person — it is about putting an end to becoming

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cooran
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by cooran » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:46 am

Hello maverick,

No, the Buddha was not vegetarian. He was an alms-mendicant - this means he ate only what people gave him, and did not store food for another day.

''As recorded in the Pali scriptures, the Buddha did not prohibit consumption of meat, even by monks. In fact, he explicitly rejected a suggestion from Devadatta to do so. In modern Theravada societies, a bhikkhu who adheres to vegetarianism to impress others with his superior spirituality may be committing an infringement of the monastic rules.

On the other hand, the Buddha categorically prohibited consumption of the flesh of any animal that was "seen, heard or suspected" to have been killed specifically for the benefit of monks (Jivaka Sutta, Majjhima Nikaya 55). This rule technically applies only to monastics, but it can be used as a reasonable guide by devout lay people.''
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Cittasanto
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:08 am

maverick wrote:Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his average diet like ?
there are no specific tellings of diet, but there are references, this page may help answer your questions somewhat
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=V ... d_Buddhism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Hanzze
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Re: David's Book : Non-violence and Vegetarianism

Post by Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:12 am

Maybe it is usefull to make also some connections to non-greed and non-delusion in regard of Vegetarianism. Of course it needs a lot more effort and time to transport and to get the message for a real non-violence solution.
People love non-violence but do not like non-greed and they love -ism but aren't much interested in non-delusion.

Maybe something that needs some good extra work for the modern approach of Theravada in the "modern" world.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:32 am

Maybe useful, to understand the eightfold Path and Diet (even not the best english): Buddha Dharma and Food - consider food as path to liberation
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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DNS
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by DNS » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:19 pm

maverick wrote:Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his average diet like ?
Yes, there are indications. I was curious too, so took the time to go through the Tipitaka and record every instance where it discusses what he ate. He was not vegetarian, but pretty close; about 97% vegetarian and not too much vegan. See:

Diet of Buddha

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DNS
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by DNS » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:07 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: Diet of Buddha
97% vegetarian and about 72% vegan (I just counted the vegan references).

And based on the above, I think it is a win-win for both sides in the veg. debates. The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian. And the omnivores can say that the fact that he ate some meat, any meat, shows that he did not ban it, nor is there the direct intention in regard to killing.

perkele
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by perkele » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:16 am

David N. Snyder wrote: The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian.
which is maybe not quite such a meaningful statement in face of the fact that he did not choose his own food buth just accepted almsfood given to him.
But I think it goes to show that his supporters and almsgivers took the precept of abstaining from killing seriously.

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:37 am

You can infer from the texts that the Buddha was passively vegetarian, but did consume meat when it was offered.

Like David said, he clearly had a primarily meat-free diet.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:20 am

perkele wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian.
which is maybe not quite such a meaningful statement in face of the fact that he did not choose his own food buth just accepted almsfood given to him.
But I think it goes to show that his supporters and almsgivers took the precept of abstaining from killing seriously.
the only way that could be known about the supporters is if they never gave him meat
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Hanzze
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Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Post by Hanzze » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:38 am

There is much danger in drawing a direct connection between the wordly trend of Vegetarism and that what is taught and practiced by the Buddha and his noble disiples. So everybody should give this point very much attention and wisly reflecting.
Dhammantaraya
By miccha-dhamma that are likely to cause dhammantaraya is meant such views, practices and limitations as the inability to see the dangers of samsara, the belief that these are times when the Paths and the Fruits can no longer be attained, the tendency to defer effort until the parami ripen, the belief that persons of the present day are dvi-hetuka,[38] the belief that the great teachers of the past were nonexistent, etc.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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yawares
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David's Book : Vegetarianism And The Middle Way

Post by yawares » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:44 pm

Dear Members,

David's Book : Vegetarianism And The Middle Way
[By Dr.David N. Snyder]


To accurately find out what the intention of the Buddha was we need to look at the basic
teachings that all Buddhist clergy and Buddhist schools can agree on. If we ignore the Buddhist
scripture references that seem to allow meat eating and also ignore the references which
specifically forbid it, we can analyze what the Buddha really taught by focusing on his core
teachings. The core teachings of the Buddha, accepted by all Buddhist schools, are found in the
Eightfold Middle Path. Consider the following points:

1. Right Action of the Eightfold Middle Path refers to ―no killing or causing to kill.

2. The first precept is to not kill or cause to kill. The precepts are based on the Eightfold
Middle Path, moral constituents.

3. When a person buys meat at a grocery store, the meat is definitely going to be replaced by
the grocer. The butcher will request another killed animal from the slaughterhouse.

4. Right Understanding of the Eightfold Middle Path includes an understanding of the Four
Noble Truths, which are based on cause and effect.

5. Right Livelihood of the Eightfold Middle Path does not permit an occupation of killing
animals or handling animal flesh, such as a butcher.

When you consider the above points, all drawn from the core teachings of the Buddha in the
Eightfold Middle Path, it is very difficult to imagine that the Buddha would have condoned the
eating of meat.


One of the arguments for meat eating is that the meat could be eaten if you do not do the killing
or if the animal is not killed specifically for you. If it is okay to eat meat, but not do the killing,
then why would the Buddha forbid a job that simply handles the flesh, such as a butcher? What if
everyone were Buddhist? Who would do the dirty work of killing so that others could eat the
meat without doing the killing? There is an obvious hypocrisy in the thinking that it is okay to
eat meat if someone else does the killing
.


Even if you accept the idea that it is okay to eat meat as long as you do not do the killing, that
still does not explain why the Buddha specifically forbade the handling of animal flesh, even if it
was killed by someone else. The Buddha also required the monks and nuns to carry a filter for
their water. He did not want the monks and nuns to even accidentally eat an insect. If the Buddha
was this concerned about the life of an insect, we can imagine the extent of the compassion
toward a cow or pig.


Even if you still believe that it is okay to eat meat if you are a monk or nun and it is offered to
you, then this still does grant the right to lay people who must make the decisions on which types
of food to purchase at the grocery stores. If you feel that lay people must be vegetarian and
monks and nuns must accept whatever is offered to them (as most Buddhists believe) then the
monastics become de facto vegetarians too, as they receive their foods from the vegetarian lay
people.


The Buddha‘s teachings are centered around cause and effect, including the Four Noble Truths
with its answers to our everyday suffering and in his teachings on kamma and re-birth and
dependent origination. The Buddha was like some kind of super scientist who deeply understood
cause and effect in every facet of existence. To say that he would not understand the cause and
effect relationship between meat eating and the killing of animals is unimaginable.


The very first Buddhist writings of any kind are not the Pali Canon, but the edicts of Ashoka.
The Pali Canon was not written until the first century B.C. The edicts of Ashoka written on rock
and granite were completed in the third century B.C. King Ashoka lived only 179 years after
Buddha and helped spread Buddhism in those ancient times. As one of the first Buddhists after
the life of the Buddha, his edicts and example provide a good clue as to the intent of Buddha on
this subject. Ashoka was a vegetarian and declared that animals should not be killed for food to
another and gradually phased out the killing of animals for food. One of the most famous edicts
is in the state of Gujarat, India and reads:
―Formerly, in the kitchen of Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadas [Ashoka], hundreds of
thousands of animals were killed every day to make curry. But now with the writing of this
Dhamma edict only three creatures, two peacocks and a deer are killed, and the deer not
always. And in time, not even these three creatures will be killed.
(Dhammika, Edicts of Ashoka)


The edict above was originally written in the ancient Brahmi script. It represents one of the first
(perhaps the first) writings about the Buddha-Dhamma.


Vegetarianism and the Middle Way

Q. How does vegetarianism fit with the middle way? Isn’t vegetarianism an “extreme”
view?

A. Middle way does not necessarily mean “a little of this and a little of that.” For example, we
know that abstaining from drugs and alcohol is a good precept to follow because if we abuse
drugs and alcohol, we can become addicts. We become prisoner to the next fix or dose. Under
the influence we can do all kinds of other bad things which we may not even be aware of. An
extreme or fanatical view of middle way would seem to suggest that Buddhists would be able to
take some drugs and alcohol, since it is a ―middle position between addiction and abstention.
But when you start the craving process, addiction can surely follow. How about a little bit of
poison? Who wants to ingest some poison that can kill almost instantly, such as rat poison? This
is why we need to let go of all views, including Buddhist ones. If we take an extreme view of
Buddhist middle way, we might think that ―a little of this and a little of that is okay, regardless
of the content.

If you feel that you can handle such things as alcohol in moderation and wish to do so you can
continue with that experiment and see if your judgment is not impaired, so long as no being is
harmed or killed. In regard to meat eating, even in moderation, we can not honestly say that no
living being will be killed (to replace the meat).

Middle way or moderation is for wholesome and nonviolent activities and not for obvious
actions which harms yourself or others. Perhaps a better way to describe the middle way is,
―everything in moderation, including moderation.

Vegetarianism can actually be a ―middle way position when you look at the Buddha‘s first
description and definition of the middle way. The Buddha first described the middle way as not
being the extreme of an ascetic where you deprive yourself and torture the body (such as some
yogis trying to reach enlightenment through self mortification) and the other extreme of self
indulgence.


Self mortification, as practiced by some yogis included long fasts. The Buddha broke the rule of
the ascetics when he ate and bathed. Vegetarianism does not require long fasts or even short
fasts. The one extreme is fasting and torturing your body and the other extreme is doing
whatever you want. Vegetarianism does not require malnutrition or sacrificing your body or your
health.


Self indulgence refers to chasing after pleasures of the senses without regard for consequences. It
is an attachment to the senses. If we know that meat eating is not needed for survival and we
choose to eat it because we are attached to the taste, that is a form of self indulgence.
If you consider the different levels of vegetarianism, the minimum amount to be called a
vegetarian of ―Lacto-Ovo (no meat, but will eat animal products, such as eggs and dairy) does
not look so extreme. For example, there are vegetarians who do not eat eggs (lacto-vegetarians),
vegetarians who do not eat dairy products (ovo-vegetarians), vegetarians who do not eat any
animal products (vegans), and some vegetarians who only eat macrobiotic, organic, raw vegan
foods. And then there are those who take even that a step further, like the Jain food diet where,
foods are eaten only from plants where the source plant did not die. For example, in this diet you
only eat greens that are trimmed from the top of the plant so that the plant is not killed.
In India there are millions of Jains who only eat greens from plants that are trimmed. They check
their seats before sitting down to make sure they are not sitting on any insects. The Jains also put
a cover on their mouths, thinking that it will prevent the death to microorganisms in the air. The
Buddha said that it is the intention that matters so that if we accidentally sit or walk on an insect,
it is okay. To be a vegetarian Buddhist, one only needs to eat at the lacto-ovo level or higher.
Seen in this way, with all the levels of vegetarian diets, the lacto-ovo vegetarian diet does not
look so extreme.


------to be continued----------
yawares :anjali:

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yawares
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Celebrities : Super Famous Vegetarians

Post by yawares » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:24 am

Dear Members,
I'm so surprised that many of my favorite entertainers are vegetarians!!
:jumping:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... t&y=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Celebrities: Famous Vegetarians Directory

Are you curious to know if your favorite movie star, famous celebrity, athlete or musician is a vegetarian? We've compiled this list from various sources (unverified & verified) to let everyone know that these famous people have chosen to be vegetarians.


•Abraham Lincoln, former President of the United States - info
•Adolf Hitler, infamous German Nazi dictator - info (IVU)
•Adriana Karembeu, model - info
•Albert Einstein, renowned scientist - info (IVU)
•Albert Schweitzer, theologian, philosopher, and physician - info (IVU)

•Alec Baldwin, actor and animal rights advocate -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... ec+baldwin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Alicia Silverstone, actress, vegan -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Alyssa Milano, actress, vegan - info
•Amber Benson, actress - info
•Amanda Crew, actress, vegan - info

•Andy Lally, NASCAR driver, vegan -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... t&y=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Angela Bassett, actress - info
•Angela Davis, actress, vegan - info
•Angelica Segerbäck, singer - info

•Angie Everhart, model and actress -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Anna Paquin, actress and Oscar winner of The Piano - info
•Anna Nicole Smith, actress, model - info
•Annalise Braakensiek, model - info
•Anne Hathaway, actress -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Ariana Huffington, writer and political activist - info
•Aristotle, Greek philosopher - info (IVU)

•Ashley Judd, actress -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Aubrey Chandler, actress - info
•Audrey Kitching, model - info
•Belinda Carlisle, singer of the Go-Go's -: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccQUAUXgk88" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•Benjamin Franklin, author, politician, and scientist - info (IVU)
•Bernadette Peters, actress - info
•Betty White, actress - info

•Bill Clinton, former American President -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Billie Jean King, tennis player - info
•Billy Idol, musician - : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfRn7Mp5L0k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•Bob Barker, US TV show host - info
•Bob Dylan, singer, songwriter, and musician - info
•Bonnie Raitt, musician and singer - : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neuLfCVS0cU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•Boy George, singer - info

•Brad Pitt, actor -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Brigitte Bardot, French actress -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Brooke Shields, actress
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Bruce Springsteen, musician, singer and songwriter : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=129kuDCQtHs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Bryan Adams, singer and songwriter, : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGoWtY_h4xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•Candice Bergen, actress - info
•Carlos Santana, musician and guitar player - info
•Charles Darwin, renowned scientist - info (IVU)
•Carmen Garcia, model - info
•Carmen Miranda, Brazilian bombshell -

•Carrie Underwood, country singer, vegan -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Carrie Anne Moss, actress in Matrix trilogy, vegan - info
•Casey Affleck, actor, vegan - info
•Casey Kasem, US radio host, vegan - info
•Chelsea Clinton, daughter of Bill Clinton and Hilary Clinton - info

•Chris Evans, actor from Cellular and Fantastic Four
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... t&y=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Chris Evert, American tennis legend - info
•Christian Bale, actor - info

•Christie Brinkley, model :
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... t&y=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Christina Applegate, actress -

•Claudia Cardinale, Italian film star -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Claudia Schiffer, super model -

•Clint Eastwood, actor and film director-
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Clint Walker, actor - info
•Coretta Scott King, activist and wife of Martin Luther King Jr., vegan - info
•Cyndi Lauper, singer and songwriter : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Daryl Hannah, actress and environmental activist, vegan - info
•Davy Jones, musician of the Monkees : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Demi Moore, actress : http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... demi+moore" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Dennis Weaver, TV actor - info
•Devin Townsend, Musician, guitarist, producer - info
•Diane Keaton, actress - info

•Doris Day, actress -
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... gac&sado=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Drew Barrymore, actress - info
•Dustin Hoffman, actor - info
•Dwight Yoakam, musician and country music singer - info
•Elijah Wood, actor - info
•Elizabeth Berkley, actress - info
•Ellen Degeneres, TV personality, vegan - info
•Emily Dickinson, writer and poet - info
•Emmylou Harris, singer - info
•Eric Roberts, actor, vegan - info
•Eric Stoltz, actor - info
•Faith Hill, musician, country singer - info
•Gandhi, Hindu spiritual leader - info (IVU)
•George Harrison, musician of the Beatles - info (IVU)
•George Bernard Shaw, writer - info (IVU)
•Gina Lee Nolin, actress - info
•Ginnifer Goodwin, actress - info
•Paul McCartney, the Beatles : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41xLRmEPoY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•Gloria Swanson, actress - info
•Haley Mills, actress
•King Asoka
•Greg Cipes, actor and musician, vegan - info
•Greg German, actor - info
•Gregory Smith, Child Prodigy - info
•Gustave Flaubert, French novelist - info
•Gwyneth Paltrow, actress - info

*************
yawares :jumping:
Last edited by yawares on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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