the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DNS
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by DNS »

Potato wrote: Protein: in the modern Western world, getting enough protein is not an issue. Just make sure to eat something with whole grains and something with beans daily. If you are concerned about it because you work out, Vegan Bodybuilding may be a site where you can get some good information.
:thumbsup:

A friend of mine, Tim Van Orden is 40 years old and regularly wins stairclimbing competitions, defeating 20 and 30 somethings for the overall championship, not just for his age class. He is a raw food - vegan.

http://runningraw.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by alan »

Yes, Krill are animals, but there are hundreds of millions of them, and they constantly regenerate. If the primary concern is to avoid all animal products, ok, stay away. But as a general health tip it is a good thing to take Krill oil.
Everyone knows now about the health benefits of Omega-3 fatty acids. Krill oil delivers this in the most potent way. It also contains Astaxanthin. As for flax and walnuts, I'm all for it. But there is some debate about whether or not ALA is converted into Omega-3 in the body. I'll put my money on Krill oil for over all health benefits, for those not going very strictly veg.

As for Tofu,
I promise this is the last time I'll mention this site--westonaprice.org.
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by DNS »

alan wrote: As for Tofu,
I promise this is the last time I'll mention this site--westonaprice.org.
What a terrible website! It looks to be an anti-vegetarian propaganda site. :)

According to that site, I should be dead already! :D

If vegetarian diets are that bad, why are vegetarians so healthy, less cholesterol, normal blood pressure, less heart disease, etc.?

The longevity rates in industrialized countries have gone up, not down as people consume less of those "pure protein" animal sources (which are praised so highly by the author of that website).
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by DNS »

That westonaprice site is based off the teachings of Weston Price:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He was a dentist who lived to the age of 78. Not bad, but today there are many industrialized peoples living well into the 80's and beyond, especially those that do not follow his advice of lots of animal sources for protein.

From the wiki article:
In 2002, Stephen Barrett of the website Quackwatch published an internet essay a portion of which criticized Weston Price's premises and conclusions.[2] There is some evidence to indicate that crowding has gotten significantly worse in the past 500 years, but not to the extent suggested by Price.[3]
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by alan »

Did you read about Dr. Price and his 30 years of research in the developing world?
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

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alan wrote:Did you read about Dr. Price and his 30 years of research in the developing world?
I have read enough to know that he is mistaken and have read and experienced enough with the vegetarian diet to know that it works, in my opinion and for me.
:smile:
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Annapurna »

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan wrote: General health tips: Fish oil is good, Krill oil is far superior.
They are not vegetarian. If it is for the omega-3 benefits, those same benefits can be gained from eating flax seeds or walnuts.
High Fructose Corn Syrup=poison.
Trans-fats=poison.
Agree.
And avoid Tofu!
Why? I eat tofu all the time with no ill effects. I know there are some studies showing too much soy can cause some problems, but it is like anything; it must be done in reasonable levels. If someone eats pounds of tofu and soy milk everyday, all day long, there will be ill effects, in the same way if someone eats broccoli all day and nothing else. The diet must be well-balanced and include a variety of vegetarian/vegan foods.

There is no need for meat for any nutritional reason(s).
Agree.
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Annapurna »

alan wrote:Yes, Krill are animals, but there are hundreds of millions of them, and they constantly regenerate. If the primary concern is to avoid all animal products, ok, stay away. But as a general health tip it is a good thing to take Krill oil.
Everyone knows now about the health benefits of Omega-3 fatty acids. Krill oil delivers this in the most potent way. It also contains Astaxanthin. As for flax and walnuts, I'm all for it. But there is some debate about whether or not ALA is converted into Omega-3 in the body. I'll put my money on Krill oil for over all health benefits, for those not going very strictly veg.

As for Tofu,
I promise this is the last time I'll mention this site--westonaprice.org.
Krills are animals. Sentient beings.
If somebody truly wants to spare animals, krill can't be the choice.

Walnuts and other seeds in conjunct with raisins and other veggies will work together synergistically and do the job.

I'd rather hear in your own words what you have against soy...or a quick quote... :anjali:
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by alan »

I'll ask you all to go to the Amazon page: Nutrition and physical degeneration by Weston A. Price and read it. I find it compelling.
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Annapurna »

I agree that physical degeneration has to do with denatured food.

That's why i eat a lot of raw food.

I can FEEL how my energy goes down with too much denatured food, and I begin to crave raw food...sort of like:

I don't want anymore cake, gimmie an apple.
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Cittasanto »

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan wrote:Did you read about Dr. Price and his 30 years of research in the developing world?
I have read enough to know that he is mistaken and have read and experienced enough with the vegetarian diet to know that it works, in my opinion and for me.
:smile:
I agree.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by alan »

Took me a long time to accept that soy was not good for the health...I rejected it too, first time I heard it. Don't think I will change any minds.
And obviously the science of health is not what most people want to discuss. So:

How important is it to avoid killing sentient creatures, if their consumption keeps us healthier?
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Cittasanto »

alan wrote: How important is it to avoid killing sentient creatures, if their consumption keeps us healthier?
How important is eating meat when there are options available which would keep the body healthy?
eating meat does not guarantee perfect health.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by alan »

Yes Manapa but what about supplements like Krill oil?
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Re: I'm a new vegetarian! Some questions...

Post by Annapurna »

alan wrote:
How important is it to avoid killing sentient creatures, if their consumption keeps us healthier?
The first precept, and not supporting wrong livelyhood is on the one side,
and self- centered needs for a body that will rot on the other.

Trying to maintain a body at the expense of other sentient beings.
Took me a long time to accept that soy was not good for the health...I rejected it too, first time I heard it. Don't think I will change any minds.
And obviously the science of health is not what most people want to discuss.
Please quote exacty which health issue you're concerned about.

Your assertion remains too vague to be able to reply.

Thank you.
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