the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

Another thing worth mentioning, for those concerned about the environment, is the biggest cause of greenhouse gas emissions is animal agriculture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_c ... #Livestock
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binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

Santi253 wrote:If the Buddha taught that it's misconduct to kill animals for meat or to profit from the killing of animals for meat, then the only reason why his original disciples were not vegetarians themselves is because, unlike ourselves, they relied on alms for food, so they had no choice in the matter of what to eat.
And if someone would put gravel in their alms bowl, they would have no choice but to eat it?

While the options for what is available for monks to eat are indeed limited, it is not true that they have no choice as to what to eat.
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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Santi253 wrote:Another thing worth mentioning, for those concerned about the environment, is the biggest cause of greenhouse gas emissions is animal agriculture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_c ... #Livestock
Agriculture is near the bottom of this list:

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/source ... -emissions

The primary sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States are:
•Electricity production (29 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Electricity production generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions. Approximately 67 percent of our electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, mostly coal and natural gas.2
•Transportation (27 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from transportation primarily come from burning fossil fuel for our cars, trucks, ships, trains, and planes. Over 90 percent of the fuel used for transportation is petroleum based, which includes gasoline and diesel.3
•Industry (21 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from industry primarily come from burning fossil fuels for energy, as well as greenhouse gas emissions from certain chemical reactions necessary to produce goods from raw materials.
•Commercial and Residential (12 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from businesses and homes arise primarily from fossil fuels burned for heat, the use of certain products that contain greenhouse gases, and the handling of waste.
•Agriculture (9 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture come from livestock such as cows, agricultural soils, and rice production.
•Land Use and Forestry (offset of 11.8 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Land areas can act as a sink (absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere) or a source of greenhouse gas emissions. In the United States, since 1990, managed forests and other lands have absorbed more CO2 from the atmosphere than they emit.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

Agriculture is much more than 9% of greenhouse gas emissions, figures I've heard are closer to 50%, leave it to our government to underestimate it!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

Admittedly the 50% figures were for the whole world, where agriculture makes up a much larger percentage, rather than just the US.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Thanks for pointing that out. I did not realize that I was posting data for the usa only.....I will try to pay more attention to details in the future.
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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

lyndon taylor wrote:Agriculture is much more than 9% of greenhouse gas emissions, figures I've heard are closer to 50%, leave it to our government to underestimate it!!
Thank you for pointing this out. Other people will have to do their own research and form their own conclusions.

I have never attempted here to shame others into vegetarianism, whether for health, ethical, or environmental reasons. I have just tried, like Lyndon above, to present whatever is supported by the evidence.

I am not going to shame a Buddhist, in any way, shape or form, for choosing to eat meat, and I'm sorry if I've given that impression.

I will just point out, for the sake of logical consistency, that if it's misconduct to kill animals for meat, then you are enabling this misconduct by purchasing it.

Monastics who rely on alms for food don't have the luxury to decide what to eat and not eat, but we do if we go out and buy our own food.

People will need to make their own dietary choices, and it's not my right to judge others as somehow inferior because of it.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Warrior_monk1
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Vegetarian

Post by Warrior_monk1 »

Hello!

I want to eat less meat and eventually I want to become a vegetarian. Ofcourse, of Buddhist beliefs :anjali:
What are good meat replacements? I.E for lunch and ofcourse dinner? Ofcourse I need to think about my martial arts training, because I still train 6 days a week. But, I think it will not be a problem.
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by DNS »

If you go to a natural foods type store (here in the West coast of the U.S. that's Trader Joe's, Whole Foods), you can find a ton of meat replacements from veggie burgers, tempeh burgers, meatless deli slices. And then if you go to an Asian grocery (99 Ranch Market and numerous others) you can find even more meat substitutes (meatless chicken nuggets, meatless duck, meatless fish, etc). Some are so realistic to meat that some vegetarians don't like to eat them; the texture, taste, etc is "too realistic." There are some Chinese vegetarian restaurants that serve meat substitutes and they are prepared very well and tasty with the right sauces. I've seen some omnivores comment that they "don't miss the meat" that it is so tasty.
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by lostitude »

You don't have to replace meat with things which look or taste like meat, unless of course your problem is to miss it.
But from a purely biological perspective, a balanced association between grains and legumes perfectly does the job. If you're a woman, you might want to check your iron levels from time to time. If you are a male you don't need to worry about that.
Regarding your martial arts training 6 times a week, what is important for that is carbs more than proteins. Vegetal proteins coming from good sources like quinoa, rice+lentils/chickpeas/beans etc. are more than enough for propre muscle maintenance.
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Warrior_monk1 »

David N. Snyder wrote:If you go to a natural foods type store (here in the West coast of the U.S. that's Trader Joe's, Whole Foods), you can find a ton of meat replacements from veggie burgers, tempeh burgers, meatless deli slices. And then if you go to an Asian grocery (99 Ranch Market and numerous others) you can find even more meat substitutes (meatless chicken nuggets, meatless duck, meatless fish, etc). Some are so realistic to meat that some vegetarians don't like to eat them; the texture, taste, etc is "too realistic." There are some Chinese vegetarian restaurants that serve meat substitutes and they are prepared very well and tasty with the right sauces. I've seen some omnivores comment that they "don't miss the meat" that it is so tasty.
Thanks! Yesterday I have bought vegetarian sausage and it's pretty good! It's more expensive, but I feel the taste is much better. The vegetarian sausage has soja bean and a lot of protein in it. You recommended a lot of meat replacements and I will make sure I will use it in my diet. Thank you! :anjali:
Warrior_monk1
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Warrior_monk1 »

lostitude wrote:You don't have to replace meat with things which look or taste like meat, unless of course your problem is to miss it.
But from a purely biological perspective, a balanced association between grains and legumes perfectly does the job. If you're a woman, you might want to check your iron levels from time to time. If you are a male you don't need to worry about that.
Regarding your martial arts training 6 times a week, what is important for that is carbs more than proteins. Vegetal proteins coming from good sources like quinoa, rice+lentils/chickpeas/beans etc. are more than enough for propre muscle maintenance.
I think, I am fine with meat replacements. Yeah, vegetarian meat is also good. I am a male haha! Thanks! I will try out Quinoa, rice+lentils/chickpeas/beans etc! Thank you!! :anjali:
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by lostitude »

Warrior_monk1 wrote:
I think, I am fine with meat replacements. Yeah, vegetarian meat is also good.
I would encourage you to read the labels. Some of those vegan substitutes are heavily processed and filled with artificial stuff... in which case I think it's preferable to stick with more natural food...
Santi253
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Santi253 »

Warrior_monk1 wrote:Hello!

I want to eat less meat and eventually I want to become a vegetarian. Ofcourse, of Buddhist beliefs :anjali:
What are good meat replacements? I.E for lunch and ofcourse dinner? Ofcourse I need to think about my martial arts training, because I still train 6 days a week. But, I think it will not be a problem.
Egg whites and non-fat dairy products are a good source of quality protein. One serving of non-fat Greek yogurt, for example, has half your daily value of protein. Egg whites have most of the protein in the egg, without the fat and cholesterol.

Potatoes, rice, bananas, beans, etc., are also cheap things to eat on a plant-based diet, as are frozen vegetables.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Warrior_monk1
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Warrior_monk1 »

Santi253 wrote:
Warrior_monk1 wrote:Hello!

I want to eat less meat and eventually I want to become a vegetarian. Ofcourse, of Buddhist beliefs :anjali:
What are good meat replacements? I.E for lunch and ofcourse dinner? Ofcourse I need to think about my martial arts training, because I still train 6 days a week. But, I think it will not be a problem.
Egg whites and non-fat dairy products are a good source of quality protein. One serving of non-fat Greek yogurt, for example, has half your daily value of protein. Egg whites have most of the protein in the egg, without the fat and cholesterol.

Potatoes, rice, bananas, beans, etc., are also cheap things to eat on a plant-based diet, as are frozen vegetables.
Thank you. Greek Yoghurt is something I can use in my diet. Thank you :anjali:
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