the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mr Man
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Mr Man » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:06 am

Rahula wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Rahula the Nidāna Sutta is relevant. http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 3-112.html
Yes, it is relevant. Thank you for mentioning it.

Lobha-Alobha, Dosa-Adosa, Moha-Amoha: These are all in our mind, isn't it? These are all thoughts.

First we have thoughts of lobha,dosa,moha and then take actions which results in akusala karma.
Or we have thoughts of alobha,adosa,amoha and then take actions which results in kusala karma.

.
They are pre-thought. If you mean thought as it is usually understood in English.

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Rahula
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Rahula » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:22 pm

Samma Ditti: Right view is most important.

Mano Pubbangama Dhamma
Mano Setta Manomaya

Mind is the forerunner of all phenomena
Mind is chief, they are all mind created

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cooran
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by cooran » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:26 am

Interesting attitudes around the world

20 of your tales of Vegetarian Woe
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21122072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Dinsdale
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:13 pm

cooran wrote:Interesting attitudes around the world

20 of your tales of Vegetarian Woe
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21122072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
Good stuff. This one made me smile:

10. Julieta, Buenos Aires, Argentina: I am also a non-meat eater in a country where vegetarianism is an exotic illness. Try telling people you don't eat red meat in Argentina. First question is always "Why?", followed by "Are you sick?" and, later, any of the following: "Are you sure? Come on, a bit won't hurt", or "Don't you ever feel like you're dying for steak?"
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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DNS
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by DNS » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Those are good. Some of my tales are similar:

I order a vegetarian meal and get fish (as if fish are not animals, yes not mammals, but still members of the Animal Kingdom).

One waiter asked, "but why??" when I asked what vegetarian options there were.

"So you only eat fish and chicken?"

"What do you even eat??" (as if omnivores only eat meat, no bread, no pasta, no veggies, no beans, etc., etc.)

"I could never be a vegetarian, I am a strict carnivore!" (again, see my comment above, as if omnivores only eat meat and nothing else)

"But you need animal protein, how do you stay healthy?" (and this person recently came back from the doctor with high cholesterol and other ailments)

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marc108
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by marc108 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:05 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: "I could never be a vegetarian, I am a strict carnivore!" (again, see my comment above, as if omnivores only eat meat and nothing else)
its funny how people speak with such strong pride about things like that, on both ends!
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

palchi
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by palchi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:00 am

cooran wrote:Interesting attitudes around the world

20 of your tales of Vegetarian Woe
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21122072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
hahaha this reminds me of a dinner in a very good restaurant in Istanbul. We had all these fantastic little things for starters, many of which were vegetarian, so that was nice. No vegetarian main course on the menu, but after some discussion they suggested mushrooms. Sounded good enough.... but what did I get? A big bowl containing warmed up tinned champignons, nothing else :-)))

shaunc
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by shaunc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:18 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Those are good. Some of my tales are similar:

I order a vegetarian meal and get fish (as if fish are not animals, yes not mammals, but still members of the Animal Kingdom).

One waiter asked, "but why??" when I asked what vegetarian options there were.

"So you only eat fish and chicken?"

"What do you even eat??" (as if omnivores only eat meat, no bread, no pasta, no veggies, no beans, etc., etc.)

"I could never be a vegetarian, I am a strict carnivore!" (again, see my comment above, as if omnivores only eat meat and nothing else)

"But you need animal protein, how do you stay healthy?" (and this person recently came back from the doctor with high cholesterol and other ailments)
Somewhere I've read that because fish & chicken is not as high up the evolutionary chain as say beef, the kamma that comes from killing one of these is not as great as it would be for killing cattle for example. Would someone who is more knowledgeable than me please either endorse or refute this view.

Dulzie Bear
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dulzie Bear » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:36 pm

shaunc wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:Those are good. Some of my tales are similar:

I order a vegetarian meal and get fish (as if fish are not animals, yes not mammals, but still members of the Animal Kingdom).

One waiter asked, "but why??" when I asked what vegetarian options there were.

"So you only eat fish and chicken?"

"What do you even eat??" (as if omnivores only eat meat, no bread, no pasta, no veggies, no beans, etc., etc.)

"I could never be a vegetarian, I am a strict carnivore!" (again, see my comment above, as if omnivores only eat meat and nothing else)

"But you need animal protein, how do you stay healthy?" (and this person recently came back from the doctor with high cholesterol and other ailments)
Somewhere I've read that because fish & chicken is not as high up the evolutionary chain as say beef, the kamma that comes from killing one of these is not as great as it would be for killing cattle for example. Would someone who is more knowledgeable than me please either endorse or refute this view.
I am not so sure about that one. A being's ranking on the food hierarchy does not mean that those higher up have higher consciousness than those lower down the scale. In my opinion, it would be wrong to equate the mind's consciousness with intelligence as human beings have defined it. The mind (as defined in Buddhism) of a human and that of a snail would be equal and so a human being can take rebirth as a snail and vice versa without each having to go through a process where the mind or consciousness is added or taken away. There is nowhere in the teachings that says such a process exists and therefore we must accept that the mind and its consciousness is preserved whole from one life form to another.

If we were to use a similar hierarchical system based on intelligence, then it would also follow that a murderer killing a successful family man with a higher IQ creates more negative karma than the same murderer killing a homeless person with lower intelligence. That is not logical because the minds of both are equal although in their ability to express the fullness of that mind are different. That one is born with a higher IQ than the other is a function of their karma, not the value of their mind/consciousness.

The bottom line for being vegetarian in so far as we can, is that it does not create the motivation for the meat industry to ill treat, torture and kill more animals to satisfy our palate.

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knitted
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by knitted » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:00 am

I believe it is no longer simply an issue of preventing cruelty to animals. Resources are so scarce that our current habits will destroy us all. I find myself less and less willing to eat anything that we do not grow or cook ourselves, or comes from local ingredients. Mass production = mass extinction.

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ron-The-Elder » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:27 pm

by knitted » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:00 am

I believe it is no longer simply an issue of preventing cruelty to animals. Resources are so scarce that our current habits will destroy us all. I find myself less and less willing to eat anything that we do not grow or cook ourselves, or comes from local ingredients. Mass production = mass extinction.
Sounds good, but what do you do when you live in Alaska during the winter months? How about Tibet? Antarctica?

Get's tough to grow things yourself.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

knighter
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by knighter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:28 am

Hello there

If we were ment to be vegetarians,
why are animals made out of meat :rofl:
Be happy
knighter

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nekete
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by nekete » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:05 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
by knitted » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:00 am

I believe it is no longer simply an issue of preventing cruelty to animals. Resources are so scarce that our current habits will destroy us all. I find myself less and less willing to eat anything that we do not grow or cook ourselves, or comes from local ingredients. Mass production = mass extinction.
Sounds good, but what do you do when you live in Alaska during the winter months? How about Tibet? Antarctica?

Get's tough to grow things yourself.
Image

Dinsdale
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:41 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Sounds good, but what do you do when you live in Alaska during the winter months? How about Tibet? Antarctica?.
Haven't they got Tescos yet? :jumping:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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cooran
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by cooran » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:55 am

Hello all,

For the first time in years and years, I heard this song:

Cows with Guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE

Still brought a smile after all this time. :jumping:

with metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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