the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Justsit
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Justsit »

To make sure your protein needs are being met, you will first need to calculate your RDA.

Formula here. http://www.livestrong.com/article/34396 ... otein-rda/. This site has lots of other nutritional info.

An example, using round numbers for easy calculation:

if you weigh 220lb, convert to KG by dividing by 2.2 = 100kg.

Multiply by 0.8= 80g protein needed daily.

Be sure to check food labels for serving size to calculate protein content correctly.

I find I often need to supplement protein, and I eat very little dairy other than Greek yogurt, so I make a smoothie using a plant based protein powder such as Plant Fusion, add a banana, splash of honey, and 1 C. unsweetened vanilla almond milk. You can add some peanut butter and/or cottage cheese to up the protein amount. Yields roughly 30-35g protein.
Last edited by Justsit on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

Justsit wrote:To make sure your protein needs are being met, you will first need to calculate your RDA.

An example, using round numbers for easy calculation:

if you weigh 220lb, convert to KG by dividing by 2.2 = 100kg.

Multiply by 0.8= 80g protein needed daily.

Be sure to check food labels for serving size to calculate protein content correctly.

I find I often need to supplement protein, and I eat very little dairy other than Greek yogurt, so I make a smoothie using a plant based protein powder such as Plant Fusion, add a banana, splash of honey, and 1 C. unsweetened vanilla almond milk. You can add some peanut butter and/or cottage cheese to up the protein amount. Yields roughly 30-35g protein.
Thanks for the advice. I would have never thought of an online calculator for protein intake.
Based on the weight, American Dietetic Association (ADA) recommend taking at least 92 - 115 grams of protein per day.

Based on the conditions, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommend taking 61 - 213 grams of protein per day, which is 10% - 35% of your daily Calorie intake.
http://www.calculator.net/protein-calculator.html
Does walking between a half-mile to a mile a day count as light exercise? I put in "sedentary" as my exercise level.
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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

Here's something very interesting. The original China Study, which is today being widely used to promote veganism, included egg whites and dairy as part of its dietary recommendations:
The Vegetarian Diet Pyramid emphasizes a wide base of foods to be eaten at every meal, including fruits and vegetables, whole grains (oats, wheat, whole grain bread, barley, couscous, noodles, pasta, corn) and legumes (soy, beans, peanuts and other legumes). The middle band to be eaten from daily includes nuts and seeds, egg whites, dairy and soy cheese, milk (almond, dairy, rice and soy) and plant oils. The top tip of the pyramid are optional foods or foods to be eaten occasionally or in small quantities and includes eggs and sweets...

The Vegetarian Diet Pyramid was developed by nutrition scientists and medical specialists from the Cornell-China-Oxford Project on Nutrition, Health and Environment, which is based at Cornell; the Harvard School of Public Health; and the Oldways Preservation & Exchange Trust, a non-profit food-issues educational organization in Cambridge, Mass., whose mission is to preserve traditions and foster cultural exchanges in the fields of food, cooking and agriculture.

"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that suggests that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers, cardiovascular disease and other chronic, degenerative diseases until they shift their diets away from animal-based foods to plant-based foods," said T. Colin Campbell, Cornell professor of nutritional biochemistry, one of the scientists who helped develop and present the pyramid at the conference and the director of the Cornell-China-Oxford Project, a massive survey of more than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan designed to study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far reaches of China.
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1998/01 ... d-released
T. Colin Campbell wrote the book entitled The China Study, which was based on the Cornell-China-Oxford Project's findings.
Last edited by Santi253 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Did you guys know that there is a Wellness, diet and fitness subforum. It seems that you have slipped off the page of vegetarian debate and you could more appropriately move your conversation to that subforum:
https://dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=31
chownah
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

chownah wrote:Did you guys know that there is a Wellness, diet and fitness subforum. It seems that you have slipped off the page of vegetarian debate and you could more appropriately move your conversation to that subforum:
https://dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=31
chownah
I already started a thread there about vegetarianism and physical health, and it got merged into this thread.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Justsit
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Justsit »

Santi253 wrote:Does walking between a half-mile to a mile a day count as light exercise? I put in "sedentary" as my exercise level.
Exercise intensity can be measured several ways. One method of measurement works with the increased heart rate that occurs with exercise. The greater the intensity of the activity being performed, the higher the heart rate. This method is expressed as a percentage of maximum heart rate or %-MHR.

Measuring heart rate is the method most often used to evaluate intensity in everyday life or to set the level of exercise in physical training.
Low, moderate and high levels of exercise intensity, as measured by heart rate, are defined as follows:

Low (or Light) is about 40-54% MHR.
Moderate is 55-69% MHR.
High (or Vigorous) is equal to or greater than 70% MHR.

An individual's maximum heart rate can be estimated by using the formula: 220 – age in years = MHR. Pulse rate can then be monitored while an exercise is being done and the % MHR calculated to assess intensity.
So, for example, the estimated MHR for a 50-year-old individual would be 220 - 50, or 170. Let's say that an individual's heart rate measured 100 beats per minute performing a certain activity. Since 100 is approximately 59% of the MHR (170), that would be considered a moderate level of exercise. The overall levels of intensity for a 50-year-old would be as follows:

Low Intensity: heart rate is 68-to-92 beats per minute.
Moderate Intensity: heart rate is 93-to-118 beats per minute.
High Intensity: heart rate is more than 119 beats per minute.

Rating of Perceived Exertion
A simpler method than monitoring heart rate, which also corresponds with measured MHR, is the Rating of Perceived Exertion (or RPE).2 RPE is measured by having a person rate how they feel (psychological perception) when performing an activity. This kind of a survey, in which a person rates their perceptions, attitudes or feelings on a scale, is known as a Likert scale.

The ratings of physical effort and feelings correspond with heart rate, and people can learn to exercise at a desired level of intensity based on their subjective feelings of exertion. It should be noted, however, that people who have been previously inactive tend to overestimate their intensity level, especially for moderate activity.3
Level of Intensity RPE Physical Cues
Light Easy - Does not induce sweating unless it's a hot, humid day. There is no noticeable change in breathing patterns.
Moderate Somewhat hard Will break a sweat after performing the activity for about 10 minutes. Breathing becomes deeper and more frequent. You can carry on a conversation but not sing.
High Hard Will break a sweat after 3-5 minutes. Breathing is deep and rapid. You can only talk in short phrases.

All activity whether done at a light, moderate, or high level of intensity expends energy, and therefore is helpful for weight loss. The more intense the exercise and/or the longer the duration of exercise, the greater the energy expended per minute and the greater the impact on weight loss. http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/ ... t_id=20971
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

Justsit wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Does walking between a half-mile to a mile a day count as light exercise? I put in "sedentary" as my exercise level.
Exercise intensity can be measured several ways. One method of measurement works with the increased heart rate that occurs with exercise. The greater the intensity of the activity being performed, the higher the heart rate. This method is expressed as a percentage of maximum heart rate or %-MHR.

Measuring heart rate is the method most often used to evaluate intensity in everyday life or to set the level of exercise in physical training.
Low, moderate and high levels of exercise intensity, as measured by heart rate, are defined as follows:

Low (or Light) is about 40-54% MHR.
Moderate is 55-69% MHR.
High (or Vigorous) is equal to or greater than 70% MHR.

An individual's maximum heart rate can be estimated by using the formula: 220 – age in years = MHR. Pulse rate can then be monitored while an exercise is being done and the % MHR calculated to assess intensity.
So, for example, the estimated MHR for a 50-year-old individual would be 220 - 50, or 170. Let's say that an individual's heart rate measured 100 beats per minute performing a certain activity. Since 100 is approximately 59% of the MHR (170), that would be considered a moderate level of exercise. The overall levels of intensity for a 50-year-old would be as follows:

Low Intensity: heart rate is 68-to-92 beats per minute.
Moderate Intensity: heart rate is 93-to-118 beats per minute.
High Intensity: heart rate is more than 119 beats per minute.

Rating of Perceived Exertion
A simpler method than monitoring heart rate, which also corresponds with measured MHR, is the Rating of Perceived Exertion (or RPE).2 RPE is measured by having a person rate how they feel (psychological perception) when performing an activity. This kind of a survey, in which a person rates their perceptions, attitudes or feelings on a scale, is known as a Likert scale.

The ratings of physical effort and feelings correspond with heart rate, and people can learn to exercise at a desired level of intensity based on their subjective feelings of exertion. It should be noted, however, that people who have been previously inactive tend to overestimate their intensity level, especially for moderate activity.3
Level of Intensity RPE Physical Cues
Light Easy - Does not induce sweating unless it's a hot, humid day. There is no noticeable change in breathing patterns.
Moderate Somewhat hard Will break a sweat after performing the activity for about 10 minutes. Breathing becomes deeper and more frequent. You can carry on a conversation but not sing.
High Hard Will break a sweat after 3-5 minutes. Breathing is deep and rapid. You can only talk in short phrases.

All activity whether done at a light, moderate, or high level of intensity expends energy, and therefore is helpful for weight loss. The more intense the exercise and/or the longer the duration of exercise, the greater the energy expended per minute and the greater the impact on weight loss. http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/ ... t_id=20971
Thank you for the advice. You seem to know a lot about health. You could easily convince me to buy a protein powder if you worked at 24 Hour Fitness.

Should I get one of those pedometers? I haven't previously thought about using statistics like that.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

Santi253 wrote:Should I get one of those pedometers? I haven't previously thought about using statistics like that.
The general rule of thumb in any physical activity is that the optimal rate of exertion is when you can't talk conveniently anymore because you are breathing too intensely for normal talking.
Santi253 wrote:I just went to the grocery store and got fat-free, cholesterol-free egg whites, cream cheese, cheese slices, sour cream, and yogurt.
Educate yourself on how some dairy products are made, especially cheese.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

It's weird that the same study that's most often cited today to promote veganism recommended daily intake of dairy and egg whites as part of a plant-based diet. I already knew that the meat and dairy industries suppressed information that didn't fit their agenda. It's weird that vegans would do it too. More recently, Dr. Campbell has disavowed the consumption of all eggs and dairy products.
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lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

Santi253 wrote:
lostitude wrote: No oils? Funny because from a dietetic point of view vegetal oils along with fibers are the two main tools that help improve patients' lipid profile.
From what I've read and heard, even vegetable oils raise the level of fattiness in the blood, which causes health problems.
Could you tell me where you've read that so I can check it out (just curious)? Because this is simply not true. Countless studies have shown how omega-6 fatty acids help control cholesterol, and omega-3 help reduce triglycerides in the blood. Not to mention that the human body is unable to make these molecules, which are essential for cell membranes and for the immune response, among many other factors.

More generally, have you visited the American Dietetians Association's website? I'm sure they must have position papers on a number of issues including those of interest to you.
I still have some reduced fat peanut butter here and there. I also take a daily multivitamin.
:thumbsup:
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

lostitude wrote: No oils? Funny because from a dietetic point of view vegetal oils along with fibers are the two main tools that help improve patients' lipid profile.
It's potentially very serious:
Triglycerides – this term refers to fat in the blood. This is a kind of fat that people eat, found mostly in vegetable oil and animal fats. When it exists in high levels in your blood, it can signal increased risk for cardiovascular disease, because triglycerides also contribute to a buildup of plaque in your arteries.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/digestiv ... terol.html
Since I already have high blood pressure, I need to reduce the fat in my blood as much as possible.
lostitude wrote: More generally, have you visited the American Dietetians Association's website?
I don't know. Maybe that's a good idea.
Last edited by Santi253 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

Santi253 wrote:
Justsit wrote:To make sure your protein needs are being met, you will first need to calculate your RDA.

An example, using round numbers for easy calculation:

if you weigh 220lb, convert to KG by dividing by 2.2 = 100kg.

Multiply by 0.8= 80g protein needed daily.

Be sure to check food labels for serving size to calculate protein content correctly.

I find I often need to supplement protein, and I eat very little dairy other than Greek yogurt, so I make a smoothie using a plant based protein powder such as Plant Fusion, add a banana, splash of honey, and 1 C. unsweetened vanilla almond milk. You can add some peanut butter and/or cottage cheese to up the protein amount. Yields roughly 30-35g protein.
Thanks for the advice. I would have never thought of an online calculator for protein intake.
Based on the weight, American Dietetic Association (ADA) recommend taking at least 92 - 115 grams of protein per day.

Based on the conditions, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommend taking 61 - 213 grams of protein per day, which is 10% - 35% of your daily Calorie intake.
http://www.calculator.net/protein-calculator.html
Does walking between a half-mile to a mile a day count as light exercise? I put in "sedentary" as my exercise level.
There is a mistake here. The weight you should put in is not your current weight. It is your 'healthy' weight, ie. the weight you can reasonably achieve and maintain.
If you eat the amount of nutrients calculated on the basis of your current weight, then you are bound to remain at the same weight. Nutrients = calories. You only want to feed the 'part' of your body you want to keep, not the fat, so you exclude the fat you want to shed from the calculations.

The only thing whose intake should be calculated based on your current weight is water, because it should hydrate all of your body, including the fatty deposits.
lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Should I get one of those pedometers? I haven't previously thought about using statistics like that.
The general rule of thumb in any physical activity is that the optimal rate of exertion is when you can't talk conveniently anymore because you are breathing too intensely for normal talking.
Plus I suggest you make sure to have a cardiac checkup before embarking on cardio exercises...
lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

Santi253 wrote:
lostitude wrote: No oils? Funny because from a dietetic point of view vegetal oils along with fibers are the two main tools that help improve patients' lipid profile.
It's potentially very serious:
Triglycerides – this term refers to fat in the blood. This is a kind of fat that people eat, found mostly in vegetable oil and animal fats. When it exists in high levels in your blood, it can signal increased risk for cardiovascular disease, because triglycerides also contribute to a buildup of plaque in your arteries.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/digestiv ... terol.html
Of course high levels of blood triglycerides can be very serious. Are you sure you don't have that? Overweight patients with high LDL often have elevated blood triglycerides too.

However triglycerides from the food should not be confused with circulating triglycerides in the blood. They are not chemically the same.
A significant amount of 'bad' triglycerides in your blood are actually produced by your liver, if you eat too much sugar, especially fructose, which you find a lot in the US in the form of high-fructose corn syrup and the like. Pretty much any industrial food item which is not salty is likely to contain that in the US. The problem with fructose overconsumption is that it promotes triglycderide production by the liver, and those triglycerides end up in the blood, and they are of the saturated type, which is not the type you want. The type you want is unsaturated, and it mostly comes from oils.
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

lostitude wrote: Of course high levels of blood triglycerides can be very serious. Are you sure you don't have that? Overweight patients with high LDL often have elevated blood triglycerides too.
I guess I should see my doctor soon. I hope he doesn't try to talk me out of a vegetarian diet.
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