the great vegetarian debate

[perkele]

I have been wondering about this from the beginning, when you asked this question: how you come to ask this question, what is it actually that you are unclear about? The situation is logically very clear.

In this Sutta Buddha says there are three conditions meat can be eaten:

1. When the animals are not seen to have been killed for oneself
2. When someone is not told by other people that an animal has been killed for himself
3. When one does not suspect an animal has been killed for oneself

What if someone heard an animal was screaming when that particular meat is prepared, is this included in three conditions above or not?
Thanks.

So in this situation, the obvious question is: Do you suspect, after just hearing an animal scream in the kitchen while your meal - of meat - was being prepared, that you are now being served that very animal that has just screamed its last while presumably being butchered in the kitchen for you to eat?
And of course only you can answer that question in that situation - although from this purely textual and perhaps hypothetical description it surely sounds like there would be reason for suspicion, and hence, condition number 3 "one does not suspect an animal has been killed for oneself" would be violated.
But of course we cannot certainly answer for you if you suspect in that situation that the animal has been killed for you. You might have more information and reasons to believe otherwise.

Sorry that I only reply now. I had been wanting for more clarity of what you are unclear about. It seems that this question of yours is also related to this other one. I might be coming back to that one later, but now have to go for some pizza driving.

[perkele]

This is not specifically for bhikkhu. Is there any "blameless meat rule" for lay person?

Not that I have evert seen.

Meat can only be eaten if they are blameless. So is hearing the scream of animal include in this rule or not?

Not that I have ever seen.

Reminds me of this.

Meat can only be eaten if they are blameless. So is hearing the scream of animal include in this rule or not?

Not that I have ever seen.

Surely meat can be eaten even if not "blameless", as per the above specified 3 points. Just ask a hunter - or a lion, for example.

[D1W1]

I have been wondering about this from the beginning, when you asked this question: how you come to ask this question, what is it actually that you are unclear about? The situation is logically very clear.

In this Sutta Buddha says there are three conditions meat can be eaten:

1. When the animals are not seen to have been killed for oneself
2. When someone is not told by other people that an animal has been killed for himself
3. When one does not suspect an animal has been killed for oneself

What if someone heard an animal was screaming when that particular meat is prepared, is this included in three conditions above or not?
Thanks.

So in this situation, the obvious question is: Do you suspect, after just hearing an animal scream in the kitchen while your meal - of meat - was being prepared, that you are now being served that very animal that has just screamed its last while presumably being butchered in the kitchen for you to eat?
And of course only you can answer that question in that situation - although from this purely textual and perhaps hypothetical description it surely sounds like there would be reason for suspicion, and hence, condition number 3 "one does not suspect an animal has been killed for oneself" would be violated.
But of course we cannot certainly answer for you if you suspect in that situation that the animal has been killed for you. You might have more information and reasons to believe otherwise.

Sorry that I only reply now. I had been wanting for more clarity of what you are unclear about. It seems that this question of yours is also related to this other one. I might be coming back to that one later, but now have to go for some pizza driving.

I think hear the cry of animal will fall into category of suspicion. So it relates to the blamelessness of the meat we are eating rather than the scream of the animal per se. Thanks for the reply
And no it doesn't relate to other question.

[_anicca_]

phpBB .

This is a concise seven minute talk by Ven. Bhante Vimalaramsi. I have taken a few online retreats with him, and I am close contact with the "higher-ups", if you will, at the DhammaSukha Meditation Center, where venerable is abbot.
I asked about the eating of meat and it is possible to do ethically. It does not make you a less virtuous person.



My opinions on the ethics of eating meat...
[*] Make sure you purchase meat that was raised ethically (such as on farms)
[*] Eat species of animals that are in great abundance; no endangered species.
[*] Stay away from the consumption of cow meat because cows are contributing to deforestation, global warming, and it produces 7 pounds of feed to produce a mere pound of cow meat.

I'm a vegetarian, but this is just because I'm most used to it, and I'm not much one for the taste of meat.

[_anicca_]

Hello all,

This is interesting:

Why Buddhists should be vegetarian. By Sujato Bhikkhu
https://sujato.wordpress.com/2012/01/28 ... xtra-cute/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta,
Chris

Indeed an interesting read and he highlights many important points.

It is true that the harming of sentient beings is inevitable as a human: there are microorganisms dying in our body at this moment, small insects may die if we accidentally step on them, and bees and animals are sometimes killed in the acquisition of honey and sugar, respectively.
However, this does not mean that we should all go ahead and eat meat heedlessly; this is black and white thinking. Vegetarianism and veganism are certainly the best options in my mind, but it is still possible to eat meat ethically, as I have stated above.
It seems that both Bhikkhu Sujato's and my own approach are ones of harm-reduction and absent of the extremes of being a careless carnivore or an overly restrictive vegan.

[MrLearner]

Hello everyone,

This is a very strange question I would never have thought of asking previously, because I'm a very scientific person. But anyway since my mother and elder sister have been vegetarians for sometime now, staying with them after a long time recently I have also become a vegetarian. Now I have been a vegetarian for 3 months. You feel light after meals and so much better during these days. I also feel like gods are with me after been a vegetarian or something like that, obviously I haven't seen any, Is it purely something I have made up, quite possibly may be or do other vegetarians feel like this too. Also is there any truth for this. Thanks

[DC2R]

This is a difficult question to answer.

Perhaps you can look at it in a more generalized way. Feelings like "the gods are with you" probably stem from the good kamma you develop by not eating animals that have been killed. So there may not be any gods with you in a literal sense, but you have picked up on the results of a positive action.

[Digity]

If eating vegetarian makes you feel better than stick with it. I eat vegetarian most of the times and like how it makes me feel vs. eating meat. Not sure what to say about the "god" thing. I'm guessing the vegetarian food is just easier on your body and digestion, so you feel better for that reason.

[robertk]

Perhaps you can look at it in a more generalized way. Feelings like "the gods are with you" probably stem from the good kamma you develop by not eating animals that have been killed. Soon.

The idea that there is good kamma from being vegetarian is wrong view - and wrong view is akusala.

[SarathW]

In Sri Lanka, in certain auspicious activities we do not consume or bring meat and fish to the house for three days.
There is a belief that gods do not come to your house if you consume meat.

[Goofaholix]

Is it purely something I have made up

Yes.

If you feel physically better then I think that's more than enough.

[User156079]

del

[SarathW]

remember even fully enlightened beings eat meat.

Is there a Sutta support for this?

sloth and torpor that can be very good support for meditation

I think it is the other way around.

[denise]

read something a long time ago from Suzuki Roshi....a student of Suzuki Roshi said he had eaten meat and felt bad...Suzuki Roshi replied.."sometimes I eat rice"......

[User156079]

del