the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:56 pm

seeker242 wrote:
chownah wrote: Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
Some people, who are able to grow their own food, do that. :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening
Yes. Some people do have gardens that way. What I am working on is a way to do it efficiently in a way which can support an income. I am not thinking that I am inventing something new. What I am doing is organizing and developing the land and water resources which I have to be able to do it in a way which can provide a living income. It is not as easy as you think. For instance....if you don't have adequate drainage and your neighbor blocks off the usual route for your excess rain water to drain then the soil will be too wet to till and if you have already planted then your vegetables plants or your green manure crop will die. If you plant your seed crop for next years green manure planting too late then you will get a very small yield and have no seeds for next year and if you plant it too early you will have problems keeping the weeds down.....in the rainy season there is too much water and in the dry season there is not enough so you need to develop an irrigation system...in years past you had not problems storing seeds for the next year but then this year for some unknown reason your seeds have deteriorated so when you plant you get big gaps in the row and only half a crop unless you want to till it all up and start over again which might be too late in the season for that crop...and where will you be able to get good seed?.....the list of problems is almost endless.
chownah

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:30 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3pmMZDko60

Animals are innocent. Don't be speciesist.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:15 pm

In the Lotus Sutra, the naga princess becomes a Buddha. This shows that all creatures, great and small, have Buddha-nature. This is one reason why vegetarianism is widely practiced in Mahayana Buddhism.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:58 am

Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:38 am

chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:37 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
Yeah so what does that have to do with the new research?
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:00 am

chownah wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:
chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
Yeah so what does that have to do with the new research?
chownah
Its not new findings, its the same old Atkins crxp.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:58 am

chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Actually, this study looked at only refined and processed carbs. AKA junk food. So the lesson here is yea, junk food is still bad for you.
The researchers found some differences between results for those living in Asian countries compared to other regions. For example there was no statistically significant difference in early death from all causes between those with the highest, compared to the lowest percentage of energy from carbohydrate for those living in Asian regions. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08- ... carbs.html
This is mostly because asians get their carbs from things like rice, instead of coca cola.
In an earlier analysis of data from this new study, the team reported very low intakes of vegetables and fruit
Not really a problem for vegetarians.
The researchers noted that their study did not look at the specific types of food from which nutrients were derived. And, that, said Bethany O'Dea, constitutes a "major flaw from a nutrition standpoint." O'Dea is a cardiothoracic dietitian with Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. "For example, eating a healthy carb like an apple is more nutrient dense and better for you than eating a bag of processed potato chips," O'Dea said. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/large-stud ... d-for-you/
To do a study on carbs and not differentiate foods, AKA apple vs potato chips, well, that's just bad science.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:56 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
People love to hear good news about their bad habits, but the overall scientific evidence shows that saturated fat and cholesterol are the dietary causes of heart disease, not carbohydrates, especially not from whole plant sources:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrPXFSIKxl0

Those on the keto and paleo diets, which are all the rage right now, should look back at Dr. Atkins as a cautionary tale.
Last edited by Santi253 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:00 pm

I had a few bites of steak today that my wife made, and I was struck by how unremarkable it tasted compared to foods like potatoes, brown rice, even kale. When you've been on a plant-based diet for over a month, like I have, you will likely lose your appetite and taste for meat.

Meat just doesn't taste good enough to justify putting the saturated fat and cholesterol into your body, or to justify the torture and slaughter of innocent creatures. Meat is very boring for someone used to eating tasty plant foods.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:28 pm

Can I ask why you're writing in larger font now? I always think it looks like shouting!

I've never tasted meat or fish since I was a teenager, but I don't usually tell everyone I'm a vegetarian, I just get on with it.


:)

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:59 pm

Aloka wrote:Can I ask why you're writing in larger font now?
It's easier to read.
Aloka wrote: I've never tasted meat or fish since I was a teenager, but I don't usually tell everyone I'm a vegetarian, I just get on with it.
I am just very surprised with myself, since I used to eat meat everyday, with practically every meal of the day, and I never cared about things like dietary fat and cholesterol. Now I have no taste for it.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Dinsdale
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:32 am

Somebody told me recently that you can still buy spam. :o :jumping:

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:52 am

Spiny Norman wrote:Somebody told me recently that you can still buy spam. :o :jumping:

Image

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:20 pm

In thailand you can still get pig lungs. I had some for dinner tonight. It was good but nothing to shout about....the tongue or heart is much better. I haven't lost my taste for vegetables though.
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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:47 pm

chownah wrote:In thailand you can still get pig lungs. I had some for dinner tonight. It was good but nothing to shout about....the tongue or heart is much better. I haven't lost my taste for vegetables though.
chownah
:shrug:


When I was a student, one of the girls I shared a house with liked to have an occasional snack of raw liver or kidney.

.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:55 pm

chownah wrote:In thailand you can still get pig lungs. I had some for dinner tonight. It was good but nothing to shout about....the tongue or heart is much better.
chownah
Gross.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:14 pm

Aloka wrote:
chownah wrote:In thailand you can still get pig lungs. I had some for dinner tonight. It was good but nothing to shout about....the tongue or heart is much better. I haven't lost my taste for vegetables though.
chownah
:shrug:


When I was a student, one of the girls I shared a house with liked to have an occasional snack of raw liver or kidney.

.
Yeah, when they slaughter a pig here for some big gathering (wedding or house dedication for instance) they cut the tip off of the liver right then and eat it when it is still warm. Its good.

Another thing that is good if prepared well is placenta....either pig of cow. When my wife's uncle's cow has a calf he cooks the placenta and brings some around for us to eat...it is a special thing for him to give us some and shows that we are close. He cooks it in the traditional way which frankly is not my favorite....they use bitter herbs with a strong flavor and I like it better when my wife cooks it so that the flavor of the placenta is more prominent.
chownah

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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:30 pm

chownah wrote: Another thing that is good if prepared well is placenta....either pig of cow. When my wife's uncle's cow has a calf he cooks the placenta and brings some around for us to eat...it is a special thing for him to give us some and shows that we are close. He cooks it in the traditional way which frankly is not my favorite....they use bitter herbs with a strong flavor and I like it better when my wife cooks it so that the flavor of the placenta is more prominent.
chownah
I've heard that after giving birth some women cook and eat their own placenta.

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/ ... centa.aspx

.

Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:42 pm

chownah wrote: Another thing that is good if prepared well is placenta....either pig of cow. When my wife's uncle's cow has a calf he cooks the placenta and brings some around for us to eat...it is a special thing for him to give us some and shows that we are close. He cooks it in the traditional way which frankly is not my favorite....they use bitter herbs with a strong flavor and I like it better when my wife cooks it so that the flavor of the placenta is more prominent.
chownah
I can assure you that a bowl of kale, or even a baked potato, is a much healthier, and more humane, thing to eat. Probably tastier too if you prepare it with the right seasonings or dressings.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

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