the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

Santi253 wrote:I am changing my diet for health and longevity, which will only work if I stick to it for the long-term.
Here's a suggestion:

By Sunday, July 16, 2017, 8.00 PM your local time, devise a plan for your new eating programme.

In the week until then:

Summarize for yourself, in your own folder/document that is easy to access on your computer or on paper, all the information about various diets, eating plans, types of food, etc. you've collected recently.

Decide what changes you can realistically currently make to your eating in the week after July 16, 2017.
Be specific. For example: On Tuesday, don't eat after 9 PM. Eat an apple on Wednesday. Prepare lunch at home on Thursday night to take to work. Etc.

Think through what things you might need for your new eating programme.
Be specific. For example: Schedule going to the mall to buy vegetables on Wednesday. Gather information where it is most convenient to buy potatoes/rice/beans in bulk. Buy smaller plates and smaller bowls. Etc.

Discuss with your wife about your new eating programme. Who will cook your new food? Who will buy the new type of groceries?

Get a notebook to write in your insights about everything that has to do with your new eating programme -- your concerns, recipes, plans, etc.

Put all this in writing, on paper, someplace where you can see it.

Then carry it out.

On Sunday, July 16, 2017, after 8.00 PM your local time, post a new thread and inform us about your plan for your new eating programme.

Until then, limit your posting about eating and food only to urgent inquiries that you couldn't settle yourself by searching the internet and books.


Okay?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
lostitude
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

Santi253 wrote: Should I eat egg whites as a source of protein while on a vegetarian diet?

I am surprised by how low-fat, low-cholesterol and high in protein they are:
You absolutely don't need to eat eggs or cheese to eat enough proteins. Proteins are found in all grains, in sufficient amounts for average human beings. There are even bodybuilders and athletes who eat 0 source of animal protein and still have huge muscles.
All you need to do is have a varied intake of different grains, in order to cover your needs in all essential aminoacids, and not stick with rice and pasta (which do not contain a lot of lysine, an essential aminoacid). Quinoa and amaranth are an exception because they contain all the aminoacids you need.
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:I am changing my diet for health and longevity, which will only work if I stick to it for the long-term.
Here's a suggestion:

By Sunday, July 16, 2017, 8.00 PM your local time, devise a plan for your new eating programme.

In the week until then:

Summarize for yourself, in your own folder/document that is easy to access on your computer or on paper, all the information about various diets, eating plans, types of food, etc. you've collected recently.

Decide what changes you can realistically currently make to your eating in the week after July 16, 2017.
Be specific. For example: On Tuesday, don't eat after 9 PM. Eat an apple on Wednesday. Prepare lunch at home on Thursday night to take to work. Etc.

Think through what things you might need for your new eating programme.
Be specific. For example: Schedule going to the mall to buy vegetables on Wednesday. Gather information where it is most convenient to buy potatoes/rice/beans in bulk. Buy smaller plates and smaller bowls. Etc.

Discuss with your wife about your new eating programme. Who will cook your new food? Who will buy the new type of groceries?

Get a notebook to write in your insights about everything that has to do with your new eating programme -- your concerns, recipes, plans, etc.

Put all this in writing, on paper, someplace where you can see it.

Then carry it out.

On Sunday, July 16, 2017, after 8.00 PM your local time, post a new thread and inform us about your plan for your new eating programme.

Until then, limit your posting about eating and food only to urgent inquiries that you couldn't settle yourself by searching the internet and books.


Okay?
That looks like a lot of writing. I've been keeping it simple, eating corn, rice, potatoes, green beans, whole wheat tortillas, etc.

High-fat + High-Cholesterol = High blood pressure. There doesn't need to be too much thinking going into it.

These are things my wife tried to tell me a long time ago. I just wasn't listening at the time or caring, I guess.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

lostitude wrote:You absolutely don't need to eat eggs or cheese to eat enough proteins.
What you are saying is true, you just have to be careful to get the right amount. As for myself, I didn't know that my nonfat ranch dressing has buttermilk in it, so I've technically never been eating vegan. Having a little bit more leeway in terms of what I can eat, such as nonfat eggs and cheese, might be for the best.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

lostitude wrote:All you need to do
... and give your body enough time to adjust.
A metabolism used to the Standard American Diet will need a while to become able to effectively get nutrients from vegetables and grains.
Quinoa and amaranth are an exception because they contain all the aminoacids you need.
And buckwheat, which is much less expensive than the above.


But probably the most important bit of advice is to learn to cook and to cook preferrably all one's food oneself. Without preparing the food oneself, it can be difficult, if not impossible, to change the way one eats.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

Santi253 wrote:That looks like a lot of writing. I've been keeping it simple, eating corn, rice, potatoes, green beans, whole wheat tortillas, etc.
High-fat + High-Cholesterol = High blood pressure. There doesn't need to be too much thinking going into it.
These are things my wife tried to tell me a long time ago. I just wasn't listening at the time or caring, I guess.
Uh. Just do it then. You don't need to tell the whole world about your every fart.
:group:
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

binocular wrote: But probably the most important bit of advice is to learn to cook and to cook preferrably all one's food oneself. Without preparing the food oneself, it can be difficult, if not impossible, to change the way one eats.
It's been really easy for me so far. I take potatoes and veggies and cook them in the microwave. I season them with the same seasonings I liked before. I then take some romaine lettuce and break it apart to make a salad. I like to keep it really simple.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:That looks like a lot of writing. I've been keeping it simple, eating corn, rice, potatoes, green beans, whole wheat tortillas, etc.
High-fat + High-Cholesterol = High blood pressure. There doesn't need to be too much thinking going into it.
These are things my wife tried to tell me a long time ago. I just wasn't listening at the time or caring, I guess.
Uh. Just do it then. You don't need to tell the whole world about your every fart.
:group:
This might sound naive or ignorant, but I didn't know until recently that my health problems were reversible by a change of diet. That's why I've been sharing these things, since they are new to me. I guess I just didn't care before.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
lostitude
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

binocular wrote:
lostitude wrote:All you need to do
... and give your body enough time to adjust.
A metabolism used to the Standard American Diet will need a while to become able to effectively get nutrients from vegetables and grains.
True because a sudden switch to a fiber-rich diet can cause bloating and/or diahrrea, however I've never heard or read about any concern regarding aminoacid availability because those aminoacids are exactly the same as those in meat, and excess protein is stored as fat eventually.
lostitude
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

binocular wrote: And buckwheat, which is much less expensive than the above.
Interesting! In Europe it's usually the other way around, quinoa has been completely mainstreamed lately and has become quite cheap.
binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

lostitude wrote:Interesting! In Europe it's usually the other way around, quinoa has been completely mainstreamed lately and has become quite cheap.
I'm in Europe. Buckwheat is cheaper than quinoa, and much cheaper than amaranth.
I buy buckwheat for 2,50 Euro/kg, and quinoa for 1,99 Euro/500 g. I don't know the current price of amaranth, but it's too expensive for me. Of course, there is also (supposedly organic) buckwheat for 5 or 6 Euro/kg.
I also buy lots of barley, which is about 1,20 Euro/kg.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
lostitude
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lostitude »

binocular wrote:
lostitude wrote:Interesting! In Europe it's usually the other way around, quinoa has been completely mainstreamed lately and has become quite cheap.
I'm in Europe. Buckwheat is cheaper than quinoa, and much cheaper than amaranth.
I buy buckwheat for 2,50 Euro/kg, and quinoa for 1,99 Euro/500 g. I don't know the current price of amaranth, but it's too expensive for me. Of course, there is also (supposedly organic) buckwheat for 5 or 6 Euro/kg.
I also buy lots of barley, which is about 1,20 Euro/kg.
I'm not sure if I can ask you where you live, but in France buckwheat is almost exclusively sold in the organic aisles or in organic markets, and because of that, quinoa (which is widely available in its non-organic 'package') is cheaper. Maybe that's because buckwheat here is traditionally used as flour for specific local recipes.
binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular »

lostitude wrote:I'm not sure if I can ask you where you live, but in France buckwheat is almost exclusively sold in the organic aisles or in organic markets, and because of that, quinoa (which is widely available in its non-organic 'package') is cheaper. Maybe that's because buckwheat here is traditionally used as flour for specific local recipes.
I'm in Slovenia.
"The problem with buckwheat" is that is has traditionally been considered "poor people's food", and so upper class people would use only the expensive form of it, namely, flour.
Much of the buckwheat grown here is grown for animal feed.
Anyway, I love buckwheat, it is very easy to prepare and very satiating.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

Buckwheat and quinoa? I've never even heard of quinoa. I bought an egg white separator on Ebay today. I can't wait until it comes in the mail. I didn't even know that egg separators existed.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

This is Dr. Ornish's recommendations for those at-risk for heart disease:
whole grains, fruits, and vegetables
plant-based protein, such as legumes, which are beans and peas
egg whites
nonfat milk and yogurt
moderate salt and sugar, if desired
less than 2 ounces of alcohol a day, if desired
no oils
no foods high in saturated fat, such as nuts, seeds, and avocados
no caffeine
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellnes ... n-diet.htm
It's the no caffeine part that I'd find really hard to follow.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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