the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Aloka
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:30 pm

chownah wrote: Another thing that is good if prepared well is placenta....either pig of cow. When my wife's uncle's cow has a calf he cooks the placenta and brings some around for us to eat...it is a special thing for him to give us some and shows that we are close. He cooks it in the traditional way which frankly is not my favorite....they use bitter herbs with a strong flavor and I like it better when my wife cooks it so that the flavor of the placenta is more prominent.
chownah
I've heard that after giving birth some women cook and eat their own placenta.

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/ ... centa.aspx

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:42 pm

chownah wrote: Another thing that is good if prepared well is placenta....either pig of cow. When my wife's uncle's cow has a calf he cooks the placenta and brings some around for us to eat...it is a special thing for him to give us some and shows that we are close. He cooks it in the traditional way which frankly is not my favorite....they use bitter herbs with a strong flavor and I like it better when my wife cooks it so that the flavor of the placenta is more prominent.
chownah
I can assure you that a bowl of kale, or even a baked potato, is a much healthier, and more humane, thing to eat. Probably tastier too if you prepare it with the right seasonings or dressings.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:16 am

I just thought of something that could drastically improve America's health, especially for low-income people: Fruits and vegetables should cost less for people on food stamps. Grocery stores could even be reimbursed at the normal amount, while incentivizing low-income people to eat healthier foods.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Coëmgenu
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:49 pm

Santi253 wrote:I just thought of something that could drastically improve America's health, especially for low-income people: Fruits and vegetables should cost less for people on food stamps. Grocery stores could even be reimbursed at the normal amount, while incentivizing low-income people to eat healthier foods.
I would go for fruits and vegetables costing less in general. Its pretty sad when it is much more financially responsible to only eat instant ramen and other foods like that while putting yourself through university (he said from experience).
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:55 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:I would go for fruits and vegetables costing less in general. Its pretty sad when it is much more financially responsible to only eat instant ramen and other foods like that while putting yourself through university (he said from experience).
This year, we have more tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers in our garden than we can eat or prepare for winter. I'd gladly give you some.
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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:31 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Santi253 wrote:I just thought of something that could drastically improve America's health, especially for low-income people: Fruits and vegetables should cost less for people on food stamps. Grocery stores could even be reimbursed at the normal amount, while incentivizing low-income people to eat healthier foods.
I would go for fruits and vegetables costing less in general. Its pretty sad when it is much more financially responsible to only eat instant ramen and other foods like that while putting yourself through university (he said from experience).
Brown rice, bananas, and potatoes are always pretty cheap, among some other plant foods.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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samseva
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by samseva » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:24 am

lostitude wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:53 am
samseva wrote:- If you are to eat legumes, prepare them thoroughly (since they can damage your digestive system if not).
Hi samseva, would you mind saying more about this? Thanks.
There are different compounds in legumes which either attach to nutrients in the gut, or damage the gut itself. The main ways of rendering these inactive (or mostly inactive) is by one or more of these methods:

- Soaking
- Cooking
- Fermentation (such a soya beans in tempeh, traditionally-made soya sauce, sourdough bread)

Note that each method affects these components in different ways and to different degrees, according to the food item. The information is widely available online. Just look up each food you eat in reasonable amounts, making sure you are reading credible websites. If you want good places to start, check out Stephan Guyenet, Paul Jaminet, Chris Kresser and Mark Sisson (in order of scholarly credibility).

Ironically, traditional cultures (no pun intended) have been correctly preparing, as well as fermenting, many of their staples such as legumes and a number of their grains. It is only since the past few decades that we eat unfermented soya/tofu by the pound, and other similar things.
Last edited by samseva on Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

chownah
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by chownah » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:58 am

samseva wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:24 am


Ironically, traditional cultures (no pun intended) have been correctly preparing, as well as fermenting, many of their staples such as legumes and a number of their grains. It is only since the past few decades that we eat unfermented soya/toju by the pound, and other similar things.
What is "toju"....do you mean "tofu"? If so then in making tofu you first soak the beans and then you extract the soy milk and then you cook it.....so it seems to conform to your list of ways to make it good to eat.
chownah

davidbrainerd
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by davidbrainerd » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:25 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:49 pm
Santi253 wrote:I just thought of something that could drastically improve America's health, especially for low-income people: Fruits and vegetables should cost less for people on food stamps. Grocery stores could even be reimbursed at the normal amount, while incentivizing low-income people to eat healthier foods.
I would go for fruits and vegetables costing less in general. Its pretty sad when it is much more financially responsible to only eat instant ramen and other foods like that while putting yourself through university (he said from experience).
Fruits and vegetables are already cheap. As for people on food stamps, they need to get a job.

How much is an apple? For non-organic, like 97 cents a pound. Organic, 1.98 to $3 a pound, depending on if its a Fuji, Gala, Honey Crisp or whatever. "Let's make the gov'ment make it 1 penny a pound." So farmers can starve? I'd rather than lazy who refuse to work starve than the farmers. Get a job.

davidbrainerd
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by davidbrainerd » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:35 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:25 am
How much is an apple? For non-organic, like 97 cents a pound. Organic, 1.98 to $3 a pound, depending on if its a Fuji, Gala, Honey Crisp or whatever.
And organic is justly more expensive. As someone who does organic gardening, I know it ain't easy keeping the crop alive without pesticides. And apple trees are ridiculously weak, so growing apple tress without pesticide is like gambling.

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samseva
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by samseva » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:56 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:58 am
samseva wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:24 am


Ironically, traditional cultures (no pun intended) have been correctly preparing, as well as fermenting, many of their staples such as legumes and a number of their grains. It is only since the past few decades that we eat unfermented soya/toju by the pound, and other similar things.
What is "toju"....do you mean "tofu"? If so then in making tofu you first soak the beans and then you extract the soy milk and then you cook it.....so it seems to conform to your list of ways to make it good to eat.
chownah
Like I mentioned in my initial post, the methods work—or don't work—according the combounds. I don't eat tofu for a number of reasons (one being that 95%+ of non-organic tofu in North America is genitally modified), so I haven't researched much regarding its' preparation methods.

From what I do know, tofu was traditionally fermented before it became a modern and Western "health" food, and fermentation seems to be benefitial (fermentation is basically bacteria digesting the food before you eat it) to deactivate some combounds which cause health issues, as well as significantly increasing the amount of one or a few vitamins, such as with vitamin K (like with tempeh). You'd have to do your own reading to know more about it though.

chownah
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by chownah » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:27 am

samseva wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:56 am

Like I mentioned in my initial post, the methods work—or don't work—according the combounds. I don't eat tofu for a number of reasons (one being that 95%+ of non-organic tofu in North America is genitally modified), so I haven't researched much regarding its' preparation methods.

From what I do know, tofu was traditionally fermented before it became a modern and Western "health" food, and fermentation seems to be benefitial (fermentation is basically bacteria digesting the food before you eat it) to deactivate some combounds which cause health issues, as well as significantly increasing the amount of one or a few vitamins, such as with vitamin K (like with tempeh). You'd have to do your own reading to know more about it though.
I have read quite a bit about tofu and used to make it myself. I have never heard of it being fermented traditionally and in fact if tofu is fermented it would probably be called something else. I have always heard of it being traditionally being made using nigari as the coagulant.
Can you provide a link saying that traditinally tofu was fermented? I would be glad to read about this.
chownah

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samseva
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by samseva » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:45 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:27 am
I have read quite a bit about tofu and used to make it myself. I have never heard of it being fermented traditionally and in fact if tofu is fermented it would probably be called something else. I have always heard of it being traditionally being made using nigari as the coagulant.
Can you provide a link saying that traditinally tofu was fermented? I would be glad to read about this.
chownah
Like I said, I don't eat tofu so had no reason to research it much. Were all forms of soya products—not tofu— fermented? Probably not, but a large portion of soya products were traditionally fermented (tempeh, nato, soya sauce and so on). Fermented tofu does and did exist for many thousands of years, though. Look it up.

Anyway, I simply answered lostatitude's question. I'm not a tofu expert, you would be better off doing your own research.

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samseva
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by samseva » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:50 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:27 am
Can you provide a link saying that traditinally tofu was fermented? I would be glad to read about this.
chownah
I found this earlier:
History of Fermented Tofu by William Shurtleff and Akiko Aoyagi

lostitude
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Re: Becoming vegetarian

Post by lostitude » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:15 pm

samseva wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:56 am
95%+ of non-organic tofu in North America is genitally modified
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:
There are different compounds in legumes which either attach to nutrients in the gut, or damage the gut itself. The main ways of rendering these inactive (or mostly inactive) is by one or more of these methods:

- Soaking
- Cooking
- Fermentation (such a soya beans in tempeh, traditionally-made soya sauce, sourdough bread)

Note that each method affects these components in different ways and to different degrees, according to the food item. The information is widely available online. Just look up each food you eat in reasonable amounts, making sure you are reading credible websites. If you want good places to start, check out Stephan Guyenet, Paul Jaminet, Chris Kresser and Mark Sisson (in order of scholarly credibility).
Thanks for the references. I had heard of that but wondered what type of legumes could possibly be eaten raw, until Sam Vara came up with a list of legumes I had no idea could be eaten raw by some people...

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