the great vegetarian debate

[chownah]

" Working in a slaughterhouse must be a horribly soul-destroying job."

Life is a slaughterhouse. Life exists in its diverse forms because life feeds on life to recycle the effort expended in assembling biological chemicals. This is the way life really is. You are the result of life feeding on life and everyday you and your waste products are being eaten.....you are being eaten alive .....life is a slaughter house.
chownah

But we all have choices. I wouldn't want to contribute even in a small way to all the suffering involved in the meat industry in general and slaugherhouses in particular.

Then don't work in those industries and don't buy anything from any store that sells meat because in shopping there you are supporting the meat industry.
chownah

[Dinsdale]

Then don't work in those industries and don't buy anything from any store that sells meat because in shopping there you are supporting the meat industry.
chownah

My local supermarket has plenty of non-meat products, so I choose to buy those rather than meat products.

[beeblebrox]

Then don't work in those industries and don't buy anything from any store that sells meat because in shopping there you are supporting the meat industry.
chownah

Hi Chownah,

I don't buy meat. It's that simple. You don't need to try pervert it into something else.

[Ron-The-Elder]

"... don't work in those industries and don't buy anything from any store that sells meat because in shopping there you are supporting the meat industry. chownah

There is nothing morally wrong with eating meat, per se, aside from the resulting health issues (cardio-vascular disease, cancer, viral and bacterial infections), which are inordinate. It is the manner in which the meat is "harvested" for nutritional needs, which determines good or evil kamma.

It all goes back to the first precept: "Cause no harm to sentient beings." For example: Killing a living sentient being causes harm vs. scraping up a dead being from the roadway, skinning it, grinding it up and making sausage, cooking it and eating it causes no harm except for the medical issues already mentioned. Eating animals that die of old age, or which burn to death in a fire, which you did not intentionally cause is also free of evil karmic debt, because there was no intention to cause harm.

Waiting at the bottom of cliffs ending above the sea during the annual lemming migrations seems like another way to harvest fresh, nutritious meat.

But then we have to consider the second precept: "Take not that, which has not been freely given."

.....Are fruits, seeds, and stalks of plants freely given, or does stealing them from plants prevent natural plant reproduction? ( I could honestly argue either case.)

I have always wondered: "Does standard vegan hubris lead to heavenly realms, or hell realms?"

And finally: "Do threads like this ever end?"

[Dinsdale]

Eating animals that die of old age, or which burn to death in a fire, which you did not intentionally cause is also free of evil karmic debt, because there was no intention to cause harm.

So how do you view deciding to buy meat in a supermarket when there are non-meat options available?

[beeblebrox]

And finally: "Do threads like this ever end?"

Hi Ron,

Yes. When will it end?

Also, where do you see the hubris?

[Ron-The-Elder]

Eating animals that die of old age, or which burn to death in a fire, which you did not intentionally cause is also free of evil karmic debt, because there was no intention to cause harm.

So how do you view deciding to buy meat in a supermarket when there are non-meat options available?

I see financially and materially supporting the slaughter of living beings to satisfy our nutritional needs as a violation of the first precept: "Cause no harm to sentient beings."

[Ron-The-Elder]

And finally: "Do threads like this ever end?"

Hi Ron,

Yes. When will it end?

Also, where do you see the hubris?

It seems to me that whenever we lecture other adults as to the moral superiority of our ways, while at the same time condemning or labeling their ways as inferior, even though we may in fact be right and just in our decisions as to how to live our lives , we should consider if we are guilty of demonstrating excessive pride, excessive self-confidence and arrogance, which behaviors define "hubris".

[beeblebrox]

Hi Ron,

Is that limited to the vegans, in this thread?

[Dinsdale]

It seems to me that whenever we lecture other adults as to the moral superiority of our ways, while at the same time condemning or labeling their ways as inferior, even though we may in fact be right and just in our decisions as to how to live our lives , we should consider if we are guilty of demonstrating excessive pride, excessive self-confidence and arrogance, which behaviors define "hubris".

I think generally people are just stating their opinions on a question of Buddhist ethics. I wonder if the perception of "lecturing" occurs when others don't like those opinions?

[Mkoll]

.....Are fruits, seeds, and stalks of plants freely given, or does stealing them from plants prevent natural plant reproduction? ( I could honestly argue either case.)

I'm sorry but if you want to go that far, then it follows we shouldn't be eating anything because no matter what we eat we will be killing someething or preventing something from living. If that were the case, then we should all just starve to death so we don't hurt anything.

I think the Jains have a view that starving to death to prevent harming other beings is the best spiritual practice. Admirable, but I wouldn't call that wise. Don't take my word for it though, I'm not sure if that's actually true in their case.

[chownah]

Then don't work in those industries and don't buy anything from any store that sells meat because in shopping there you are supporting the meat industry.
chownah

Hi Chownah,

I don't buy meat. It's that simple. You don't need to try pervert it into something else.

I have no idea what it is that I am accused of trying to pervert. Spiny Norman said he didn't want to contribute in even a small way to the meat industry or slaughter house business so I offered what seemed like a way to avoid making that contribution......where does this pervert thing come in?
chownah

[beeblebrox]

Hi Chownah,

I apologize for trying to say that your argument was a perversion on someone's intention.

[chownah]

Beeblebrox,
Thank you for offering the apology which I accept with gratitude for the graciousness with which it was offered.
chownah

[Mkoll]

It seems our taste buds can get used to eating differently. I've found this to be true in my own experience on both ends of the like/dislike spectrum.

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