Drama Wheel

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by tiltbillings »

Jhana4 wrote:Amusingly there is at least one of those priggish Buddhists who delurked to complain about how contentious the subculture is here, but posts so many gratuitously inflammatory statements you would think it was by intent. And, on a board about a subject for learning how to let go of things, be less upset and be less upsetting to others. Fail.
One individual does not characterize the whole of the forum. As has been said, there are a wide variety of differing personalities here and given that, this is a remarkably civil venue, and it is up to each of us to work at that, which could also mean not taking gratuitous pokes at the failings of our fellow members.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Kim OHara
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Kim OHara »

Agreed.
Perhaps the most important aspect of online dhamma is Right Speech, with karuna and upekkha as runners-up.

:namaste:
Kim
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Quiet Heart
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Quiet Heart »

:thinking:
As a regular reader of BOTH the Dharma Wheel and the Dhamma Wheel Buddhist forums I refuse to make any negative comments here or criticize anyone on this topic
In my humble opinion that is not consistant with what I interpret as Right Speech or Right Action.
And by the way, I consider myself to be a Zen Buddhist by inclination.
I come to Dhamma Wheel to read the views of other traditions and consider them carefuly, hopefully without predjudice or anger.
I may not agree, but I try to understand those other traditions and views.
So that is what I do.
:smile:
In Quietness is the beginning of all things.

When I was younger I used to think I knew all the answers. Now I would be happy to feel I could ask just one intelligent question.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by tiltbillings »

Quiet Heart wrote:I may not agree, but I try to understand those other traditions and views.
So that is what I do.
Which is what we all should do.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ground
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by ground »

Quiet Heart wrote:I come to Dhamma Wheel to read the views of other traditions and consider them carefuly, hopefully without predjudice or anger.
I may not agree, but I try to understand those other traditions and views.
Which may cause one to question whether one may understand traditions through reading posts of users in internet forums and/or whether equating views of users in internet forums with traditions is reasonable.

Kind regards
Jhana4
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Jhana4 »

tiltbillings wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:Amusingly there is at least one of those priggish Buddhists who delurked to complain about how contentious the subculture is here, but posts so many gratuitously inflammatory statements you would think it was by intent. And, on a board about a subject for learning how to let go of things, be less upset and be less upsetting to others. Fail.
One individual does not characterize the whole of the forum. As has been said, there are a wide variety of differing personalities here and given that, this is a remarkably civil venue, and it is up to each of us to work at that, which could also mean not taking gratuitous pokes at the failings of our fellow members.
It isn't a gratuitous poking.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by tiltbillings »

Jhana4 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:Amusingly there is at least one of those priggish Buddhists who delurked to complain about how contentious the subculture is here, but posts so many gratuitously inflammatory statements you would think it was by intent. And, on a board about a subject for learning how to let go of things, be less upset and be less upsetting to others. Fail.
One individual does not characterize the whole of the forum. As has been said, there are a wide variety of differing personalities here and given that, this is a remarkably civil venue, and it is up to each of us to work at that, which could also mean not taking gratuitous pokes at the failings of our fellow members.
It isn't a gratuitous poking.
And therefore making it unnecessary.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Jhana4
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Jhana4 »

I don't agree. My opinion is that it is not gratuitous or inflammatory to say aloud that it is a Major Fail for intelligent adults who invest a lot of time in Buddhism to miss making the connection that cultivating detachment applies to web boards too. Yes, DW is better, but only because of the tight control. No, I don't think you can attribute that to differing cultures and backgrounds.

I'm not a fan of having tit-for-tat conversations, particularly with an admin, so I will leave you with the chore of ending the conversation.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by tiltbillings »

Jhana4 wrote:I don't agree. My opinion is that it is not gratuitous or inflammatory to say aloud that it is a Major Fail for intelligent adults who invest a lot of time in Buddhism to miss making the connection that cultivating detachment applies to web boards too.
But the problem is that you are aiming your barb at a particular individual.
Yes, DW is better, but only because of the tight control. No, I don't think you can attribute that to differing cultures and backgrounds.
I did not say that. There is a careful monitoring by the staff, but there is also a fair amount of self monitoring by the participants here, which is what gives this forum a nice flavor.
I'm not a fan of having tit-for-tat conversations, particularly with an admin, so I will leave you with the chore of ending the conversation.
And i'll end it with a recommendation of not taking deliberate pokes at others here in the way you did above. It only adds a level of negativity.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Dan74
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Dan74 »

I don't think it is so much due to the historical development of Mahayana of which most Mahayana practitioners would know far less than you, Tilt, but due to the kind of people fora select for. They are often people looking for controversy, argument or at best debate.

In real world Sanghas, I think this sectarian stuff is mostly an non-issue, except in the greater Buddhist politics.
_/|\_
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Kare
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Kare »

Dan74 wrote: In real world Sanghas, I think this sectarian stuff is mostly an non-issue, except in the greater Buddhist politics.
Agreed. For some years I meditated in a mixed group (Theravada and Zen practitioners), and except for some friendly bantering now and then, we never cared for sectarian issues.
Mettāya,
Kåre
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Fede
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Fede »

Hi, guys! :hello:

What have I missed??
I've been on and off this forum so erratically of late, I feel like an interloper... :oops:

But as the song goes, "Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans....." :spy:

So's everyone getting along just grand without me....? :guns:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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mikenz66
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by mikenz66 »

Kare wrote:
Dan74 wrote: In real world Sanghas, I think this sectarian stuff is mostly an non-issue, except in the greater Buddhist politics.
Agreed. For some years I meditated in a mixed group (Theravada and Zen practitioners), and except for some friendly bantering now and then, we never cared for sectarian issues.
In the real world even Abhidhamma-fanatics and and Sutta-wallahs get on quite well...

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Mike
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tiltbillings
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by tiltbillings »

Dan74 wrote:I don't think it is so much due to the historical development of Mahayana of which most Mahayana practitioners would know far less than you, Tilt, but due to the kind of people fora select for. They are often people looking for controversy, argument or at best debate.
Not necessarily, in reference to people out spoiling for a fight. The fact that the Mahayana has built into it a stance of superiority will make it quite likely that some will innocently express such a position, taking as being the truly true truth, and of those some will get cranky if not highly defensive when the Theravadin does not agree with the Mahayana position.
In real world Sanghas, I think this sectarian stuff is mostly an non-issue, except in the greater Buddhist politics.
I lived for three years in a Zen house, affiliated with the Rochester Zen Center. Zennies certainly are less pushy than Western Tibetan Buddhists, but I had it expressed to me, sometimes in the most circuitous manner that the Theravada is kind of sort of in a way not quite up to the true wisdom and compassion of the Mahayana. The Tibetan-oids tended to be far more direct. In the “real world” people tend not to engage in really lengthy discussions of such issues and tend to be far more polite, but it is there and you just can’t blame it all on the internet.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Kim OHara
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Re: Drama Wheel

Post by Kim OHara »

tiltbillings wrote:In the “real world” people tend not to engage in really lengthy discussions of such issues and tend to be far more polite, but it is there and you just can’t blame it all on the internet.
Perfectly natural, too: why would anyone join, or identify with, a group they thought was second-best of its kind?
:shrug:
Kim
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