Are you suggesting, Matheesha, that we should just believe everyone who says they're enlightened?
Are you suggesting that we should not challenge those who appear to be preying on the gullible?
What do you think we should do?
kind regards
Ben
Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Just because someone claims awakening does not mean they are awakened.rowyourboat wrote:. . . .
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
I think anyone who claims they are awakened should pinch themselves first just to be sure they aren't asleepened.
chownah
chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
I guess I am suggesting .. that we can only know after associating with them for a long time, and not for a short time, with a person who is wise and attentive etc. Maybe we will acrue much demerit by challenging enlightened beings. Some might consider this type of demerit as a great obstacle to becoming enlightened ourselves ..at least this is the cultural wisdom in Sri Lanka.
with metta
Matheesha
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
A late enlightened master:
And do not question it. The hair says it all.
And do not question it. The hair says it all.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
And I suggest that there maybe great demerit in vicariously standing by while people are preyed upon by a charletain claiming enlightenment. Tell me. Matheesha, how do we protect and help to propagate the sasana if we do not challenge those who misrepresent themselves as ariyas? Likewise, how do we protect those seeking genuine Dhamma if they are under the guidance of a charletain claiming enlightenment?rowyourboat wrote:I guess I am suggesting .. that we can only know after associating with them for a long time, and not for a short time, with a person who is wise and attentive etc. Maybe we will acrue much demerit by challenging enlightened beings. Some might consider this type of demerit as a great obstacle to becoming enlightened ourselves ..at least this is the cultural wisdom in Sri Lanka.
with metta
Matheesha
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
yes a picture is worth a thousand words
Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking.
with metta
Matheesha
Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking.
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Hi Ben,Ben wrote:And I suggest that there maybe great demerit in vicariously standing by while people are preyed upon by a charletain claiming enlightenment. Tell me. Matheesha, how do we protect and help to propagate the sasana if we do not challenge those who misrepresent themselves as ariyas? Likewise, how do we protect those seeking genuine Dhamma if they are under the guidance of a charletain claiming enlightenment?rowyourboat wrote:I guess I am suggesting .. that we can only know after associating with them for a long time, and not for a short time, with a person who is wise and attentive etc. Maybe we will acrue much demerit by challenging enlightened beings. Some might consider this type of demerit as a great obstacle to becoming enlightened ourselves ..at least this is the cultural wisdom in Sri Lanka.
with metta
Matheesha
kind regards
Ben
Your concerns are admirable. Sooner or later these people will show themselves to be who they truly are.. because they are not enlightened.
Give it time .. and like oil floating to the surface on water they will be implicated by their words and actions.
Seeking profit, sexual favours, alcohlism, drugs, lack of faith in the Buddha and the Suttas- you name it. It might be useful to think what these non-enlightened qualities might be (I might leave bad hair out though lol!).
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Actually, it does. This guy made a fortune off his claim of being enlightened.rowyourboat wrote: yes a picture is worth a thousand words
Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Looks like there is a big number of 'enlightened' teachers today.
Daniel Ingram (interactivebuddha.com) also makes the same claim. As Ben discovered, for Linda the enlightenment means that she finally doesn't know anything and by Daniel's definition Arahat is the one with "mastery of the formed jhanas, formless realms, Nirodha Samapatti, and a few other traditional attainments"'. I cannot say how attained those two are but I really like the diversity of definitions
Daniel Ingram (interactivebuddha.com) also makes the same claim. As Ben discovered, for Linda the enlightenment means that she finally doesn't know anything and by Daniel's definition Arahat is the one with "mastery of the formed jhanas, formless realms, Nirodha Samapatti, and a few other traditional attainments"'. I cannot say how attained those two are but I really like the diversity of definitions
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
However, Dan's definition of what an arahant is runs counter to what one finds in the Buddha's teachings, and thus we have a very good example of a claim that should be open to very serious questioning.Gregor wrote:Looks like there is a big number of 'enlightened' teachers today.
Daniel Ingram (interactivebuddha.com) also makes the same claim. As Ben discovered, for Linda the enlightenment means that she finally doesn't know anything and by Daniel's definition Arahat is the one with "mastery of the formed jhanas, formless realms, Nirodha Samapatti, and a few other traditional attainments"'. I cannot say how attained those two are but I really like the diversity of definitions
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5569" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
So you rather your enlightened teachers not make money. Me too. But looks like some people benefitted from whatever he was offering and they felt the money was well 'donated'.tiltbillings wrote:Actually, it does. This guy made a fortune off his claim of being enlightened.rowyourboat wrote: yes a picture is worth a thousand words
Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking.
During the Buddhas time he would have handled the claims (there is at least one sutta..). But now we simply have to go by the dhamma-vinaya. I guess it lays a lot of responsibility on the practitioenrs to know the suttas ..and very well at that. If you knew right from the start that the Buddha said 'dont make money off teaching the dhamma' there would be no problem, right?
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
An "enlightened" teacher who kills himself with an overdose of benzodiazepines is not an awakened teacher, but you can certainly hold that he is. If so, I just cannot take your opinion on this serioisly.rowyourboat wrote:So you rather your enlightened teachers not make money. Me too. But looks like some people benefitted from whatever he was offering and they felt the money was well 'donated'.tiltbillings wrote:Actually, it does. This guy made a fortune off his claim of being enlightened.rowyourboat wrote: yes a picture is worth a thousand words
Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking.
During the Buddhas time he would have handled the claims (there is at least one sutta..). But now we simply have to go by the dhamma-vinaya. I guess it lays a lot of responsibility on the practitioenrs to know the suttas ..and very well at that. If you knew right from the start that the Buddha said 'dont make money off teaching the dhamma' there would be no problem, right?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
I think that a benzodiazepine overdose would rule him/her out... unless (s)he was suffering from an incurable and extremely painful ilness.
With metta
Matheesha
With metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
In life "you pays your money 'n takes your chances."
chownah
chownah