What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kusala
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What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Kusala » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:04 pm

Great Dhamma talk http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/1390.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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phil
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by phil » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:15 pm

Hi, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with it for those who enjoy playing with it, it probably helps them to be nice people, but it wasn't taught by the Buddha and has nothing to do with liberation.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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Lazy_eye
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Lazy_eye » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:27 pm

According to the Theravada, do all beings have the potential to achieve enlightenment/arahantship (provided, of course, that they follow the Eightfold Path?)

darvki
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by darvki » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:25 am

phil wrote:Hi, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with it for those who enjoy playing with it, it probably helps them to be nice people, but it wasn't taught by the Buddha and has nothing to do with liberation.
It has everything to do with liberation if one chooses to treat it as such. It's a poetic device that can be used to describe the inclusive and ever-available nature of Dhamma.

mlswe
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by mlswe » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:32 am

Lazy_eye wrote:According to the Theravada, do all beings have the potential to achieve enlightenment/arahantship (provided, of course, that they follow the Eightfold Path?)
Yes, unless one commits patricide, matricide, hurts a Buddha, causes schism in the holy order of monks, or kills an arahant

edit* if I have understood the matter correctly
Last edited by mlswe on Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:51 am

There is nothing wrong with Buddha Nature.
Just as there is nothing wrong with unicorns.
Its just that in nature they don't exist.

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Fede
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Fede » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:54 am

I've downloaded the talk, and will comment once I've listened to it in full.
he has a nice voice....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Aloka
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Aloka » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:55 am

There's also "Freedom from Buddha Nature"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ature.html

PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:00 am

Aloka wrote:There's also "Freedom from Buddha Nature"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ature.html

Excellent...the section on No Innate Nature is a particularly clear setting out of the Buddha's teaching as found in the Pali Canon, and a good indicator of why it might be more honest to talk about Buddhisms rather than Buddhism.

darvki
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by darvki » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:43 am

Aloka wrote:There's also "Freedom from Buddha Nature"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ature.html
The article's concluding paragraph begins with: "So instead of making assumptions about innate natures or inevitable outcomes..."

My issue with this is that no one ever said buddha nature had to be an innate nature or an inevitable outcome. Ironically, rejection of the term only seems necessary if one has made assumptions, in this case about its meaning. Some may refer to buddha nature as an innate quality, but no one ever rejects the mention of kamma or nibbana solely because some have embellished the meaning of those words into "cosmic justice system" and "permanent bliss-out" (although usually for thier Sanskrit cognates).

Yes, when it comes to the Buddhadhamma we try to look past metaphysics and ontology. However, that doesn't mean that words like "nature" have to become off-limits.

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tiltbillings
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:51 am

darvki wrote:
Aloka wrote:There's also "Freedom from Buddha Nature"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ature.html
The article's concluding paragraph begins with: "So instead of making assumptions about innate natures or inevitable outcomes..."

My issue with this is that no one ever said buddha nature had to be an innate nature or an inevitable outcome.
But very frequently it gets used that way.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:58 am

The yearly arrival of a Buddha-nature thread:

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Aloka
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Aloka » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:01 am

.

In Tibetan Buddhism, 'Buddha Nature' is defined as "Unrealised enlightened mind, the essential nature of all sentient beings"

( from 'Awakening the Sleeping Buddha' by the 12th Tai Situpa)

.
Last edited by Aloka on Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Aloka
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by Aloka » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:04 am

tiltbillings wrote:The yearly arrival of a Buddha-nature thread:

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I started that one. lol !

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tiltbillings
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:05 am

Aloka wrote:In Tibetan Buddhism, 'Buddha Nature' is defined as "Unrealised enlightened mind, the essential nature of all sentient beings"

( from 'Awakening the Sleeping Buddha' by the 12th Tai Situpa)
Dogen did it better: Buddha-nature=impermanence.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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