karmic cause of schizophrenia

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Annapurna »

Peter, I respect your professional expertise, and I agree with you on the studies.

But I saw this particular case on TV... and it was a trustworthy report! Police and medics were interviewed about him. Perhaps there are exceptions for Tourette, or this man is on a study?

I don't know. But I have seen many people with all sorts of mental disorders who had a history of drug abuse, or are still doing it.

That said, I am totally against Cannabis etc, as a recreational drug.
PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB »

Incidentally the "range of conditions" is extensive. One of my colleagues recently treated a woman with a full blown cannabis psychosis caused by her self medicating for glaucoma.
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB »

I cant comment on your Tourettes case Anna..I do know that if any medic prescribed cannabis for a Tourettes sufferer in the UK they woukld be dsibarred from practising and might face jail time.

The British law was modified in terms of cannabis use a few years ago...one of the clearly observable results was a huge increase in cannabis related mental health conditions..mostly clinical anxiety states and mostly treatable but highly disruptive.

The result of that in turn was a huge reaction from parent groups, medics, educationalists etc to recriminalise cannabis back to its former status, and the politiciands said " we got it wrong"..even campaigning liberal journalists did a volte-face.
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB »

I cant comment on your Tourettes case Anna..I do know that if any medic prescribed cannabis for a Tourettes sufferer in the UK they woukld be disbarred from practising and might face jail time.

The British law was modified in terms of cannabis use a few years ago...one of the clearly observable results was a huge increase in cannabis related mental health conditions..mostly clinical anxiety states and mostly treatable but highly disruptive.

The result of that in turn was a huge reaction from parent groups, medics, educationalists etc to recriminalise cannabis back to its former status, and the politicians said " we got it wrong"..even campaigning liberal journalists did a volte-face.
Last edited by PeterB on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Annapurna »

Dear Peter,

of course you are right, it takes a special permission.

I did a google research about "Tourette syndrome and Cannabis" which brought several links in German, one of them by the University of Hannover, and also the TV docu I mentioned.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... eA&cad=rja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps you can understand it, if not, let me know, I will give it a try. In any case a court of law decided he is entiteld to getting "medical Cannabis" via prescription in a pharmacy, I also found an English link. Hold on.
Last edited by Annapurna on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dan74
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Dan74 »

As someone with no relevant knowledge or agenda, I went to the wiki page and saw this (perhaps the people in the know can comment on the reliability or otherwise of this info, especially in boldface (mine)):
Cannabis used medically does have several well-documented beneficial effects. Among these are: the amelioration of nausea and vomiting, stimulation of hunger in chemotherapy and AIDS patients, lowered intraocular eye pressure (shown to be effective for treating glaucoma), as well as general analgesic effects (pain reliever).b[›]

Cannabis was manufactured and sold by U.S. pharmaceutical companies from the 1880s through the 1930s, but the lack of documented information on the frequency and effectiveness of its use makes it difficult to evaluate its medicinal value. In 1915, one medical supply house, the Frank S. Betz Co. of Hammond, Indiana, offered "Cannabis Indica (Cannabis sative)" as one of about 70 "Crude Drugs" for $2.25 per lb., and offered a 10 percent discount for the purchase of 5 lbs.[78] The same company advertised "Tincture Cannabis Indica, U.S.P.," for 80 cents per lb.[79] Cannabis in the form of a tincture and a fluid extract is documented in a 1929-30 Parke Davis & Co catalog,[80] and is listed as an active ingredient in ten products for cough, colic, neuralgia, cholera mordus and other medical conditions, as well as a "narcotic, analgesic, and sedative". The catalog also lists compound medications containing cannabis that in some cases were apparently formulated by medical doctors, in its Pills and Tablets section.

As cannabis is further legalized for medicinal use, it is possible that some of the foregoing compound medicines, whose formulas have been copied exactly as published, may be scientifically tested to determine whether they are effective medications.

Less confirmed individual studies also have been conducted indicating cannabis to be beneficial to a gamut of conditions running from multiple sclerosis to depression. Synthesized cannabinoids are also sold as prescription drugs, including Marinol (dronabinol in the United States and Germany) and Cesamet (nabilone in Canada, Mexico, the United States and the United Kingdom).

Currently, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not approved smoked marijuana for any condition or disease in the United States, largely because good quality scientific evidence for its use from U.S. studies is lacking; however, a major barrier to acquiring the necessary evidence is the lack of federal funding for this kind of research.[81] Regardless, fourteen states have legalized cannabis for medical use.[82][83] Canada, Spain, The Netherlands and Austria have also legalized cannabis for medicinal use.[84][85]
_/|\_
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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Annapurna »

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... Rj8VC4NgaA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the study of Hannover.

7 patients in Germany are allowed to use medical Cannabis legally via prescription.o

I have no agenda to legalize Cannabis, btw.
being5
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by being5 »

I have a story I think is relevant here. It's not scientific it's from heart and intuition, from the empirical side of life.

The beloved partner of my youth had smoked a lot of cannabis in the swinging 60's and on into the 70's.
In 1978 he jumped off a building and thus ended his own life. Cruelly, he lived another hour after hitting the ground - long enough to regret and say he wanted to live.
Two days later I received a letter he posted just before jumping in which he urged me not take drugs, to stay away from drugs and told me 'drugs were bad'.
In his mind and then in mine the connection was clear.

In terms of dhamma? Conditions were such that he took his own life. That can't have gone well for the life that came next and it wasn't much fun for those who loved him and lived on.

I'm not going to debate this, it is simply an offering from my experience.

being5
PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB »

I am sorry for your loss Being5 which I am sure you still feel.

A number of my colleagues have reached the position where if a cannabis user presents with anxiety, depression , flights of ideas and so on they will not treat them until they enter into a formal treatment contract which guarantees them them a minimum number of hours and follow up visits IF they foreswear cannabis use.
They also have to agree to random urine tests.
I have not yet gone as far as that with all clients..but I do insist on it with those clients with " revolving door" syndrome.
i.e. Who present time after time with the same set of symptoms.
This is not the result of moral outrage merely, it is the result of seeing the sheer futility of trying to help those who present with those kind of conditions who continue to use cannabis.
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Rael
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Rael »

Schizophrenia is all chemically related in the brain.
The High Priests of Modern Medicine play with the chemicals and can control some of the symptoms quite well actually.

As per why one has the affliction...

I would be more concerned with The High Priests of Modern Medicine teaching the patient the importance of developing some sort of Bodhicitta in the patient.

The patient has to create some sort of positive action towards other sentients....

Maybe the governments can step in and offer a life of volunteer work...with good pay

I bet King Ashoka would have some open mindedness to this alternate approach to the patient's well being.



I'm obviously of the school of thought all is Karmic....

can there be slip ups in the nature of Karmic retribution....ooops this one should not have schizophrenia at this moment...

it's a little more than a car accident.....

i'm new to Theravadian thought....Maybe my Mahayana thinking gets in the way....

Tibetans feel that there is a trick to long life....all the times in the past when you were killed early ....there is a possibility that one can use those years to influence a longer life in this one....I bring this up , for i believe the mentally ill have these afflictions due to Karma....I witness one Schizophrenic , full blown hearing voices all the time....drove him nuts.....
so he met Soka gakkai....and after awhile had the fortune to hear of a doctor's approach this by fasting for a month....

he attributes the cure to the fasting and the Mahayana practice.....

sorry folks this is going to be hard for me to separate the two schools of thought....

i'm getting me feet wet...
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Viscid »

Rael wrote:...
as mosquitos to the porch light
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
WilsonBond
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by WilsonBond »

Rael wrote:....and after awhile had the fortune to hear of a doctor's approach this by fasting for a month....

he attributes the cure to the fasting and the Mahayana practice.....
I'm new to this forum but I thought I'd offer some of my personal experiences. I don't know if I have schizophrenia but I do get thoughts of ghosts, monsters, and demons. I used to get really scared of various monsters and then one day, instead of pushing the thoughts away I just said "F*** it. Eat me. Do your worse." And you know, my mind would go into all of these fantasies of being devoured, sliced apart, and left a bloody mess on the ground. At the end of it, I realized my awareness was still there. It can't be destroyed no matter how crazy the visions get. The monsters can take apart my body, but it's not me. They can tear away pretty much everything, but they can't touch the awareness. After that the visions stopped. I guess this is another example of using equanimity in dealing with disturbing thoughts.

Lately, I've been getting visions of these weird prehistoric sea creatures. They're really slimy and have many legs. But you know, they don't bother me that much. Sometimes I see them eating my brain or devouring my head or whatever, and I just name them Raymond, Charlie, or Cindy. "Hello Raymond. How are you?" Just saying that makes all of them vanish and they turn into a vision of a still clear lake... with pirahnas. I deal with that. And then something else pops up. I just stay patient and draw inspiration from the Buddha's description of his battle with Mara.

Anyway, the point is it's not just the past karma. It's also the present karma formed by how I hold my perception which shapes my experience. It's like how the Buddha advised us to develop a mind of limitless metta in that one sutta where he talks about how even a trivial lie can lead one to a bad destination while the consequences of the same act by one filled with metta is hardly felt at all. That's how I protect myself from these visions. Also I think making merit has something to do with it, because once I started practicing generosity and reverence to monks, I felt happier inside and better able to make friends with my thoughts.

Cheers :)
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by beeblebrox »

WilsonBond wrote: Anyway, the point is it's not just the past karma. It's also the present karma formed by how I hold my perception which shapes my experience.
Exactly. We shouldn't waste time worrying about what happened in the past (or previous lives), just how we act in the current circumstances. In my opinion, this is the best way of viewing kamma. It's still not easy, though.

:anjali:
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Modus.Ponens »

WilsonBond wrote:
I'm new to this forum but I thought I'd offer some of my personal experiences. I don't know if I have schizophrenia but I do get thoughts of ghosts, monsters, and demons. I used to get really scared of various monsters and then one day, instead of pushing the thoughts away I just said "F*** it. Eat me. Do your worse." And you know, my mind would go into all of these fantasies of being devoured, sliced apart, and left a bloody mess on the ground. At the end of it, I realized my awareness was still there. It can't be destroyed no matter how crazy the visions get. The monsters can take apart my body, but it's not me. They can tear away pretty much everything, but they can't touch the awareness. After that the visions stopped. I guess this is another example of using equanimity in dealing with disturbing thoughts.

Lately, I've been getting visions of these weird prehistoric sea creatures. They're really slimy and have many legs. But you know, they don't bother me that much. Sometimes I see them eating my brain or devouring my head or whatever, and I just name them Raymond, Charlie, or Cindy. "Hello Raymond. How are you?" Just saying that makes all of them vanish and they turn into a vision of a still clear lake... with pirahnas. I deal with that. And then something else pops up. I just stay patient and draw inspiration from the Buddha's description of his battle with Mara.

Anyway, the point is it's not just the past karma. It's also the present karma formed by how I hold my perception which shapes my experience. It's like how the Buddha advised us to develop a mind of limitless metta in that one sutta where he talks about how even a trivial lie can lead one to a bad destination while the consequences of the same act by one filled with metta is hardly felt at all. That's how I protect myself from these visions. Also I think making merit has something to do with it, because once I started practicing generosity and reverence to monks, I felt happier inside and better able to make friends with my thoughts.

Cheers :)
Hello

Have you seen a doctor about this? Schizophrenia has a way of always turning our minds against ourselves. You can be ok now but you could face terrible suffering in the future. Think about geting medication. I was resistant at first but, eventualy, I realised it is my "best friend". The initial resistence made my illness worse and led me to 4 years in seclusion from the world without being able to practice the buddhist teachings. I'm much better now but still not good enough. So please consider talking to a psychiatrist.

Be well :)
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
WilsonBond
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by WilsonBond »

Think about geting medication
I will see a psychiatrist as soon as I get health insurance. My close relatives tell me not to take medication under any circumstances, because they've seen the long term effects of medication. Thanissaro Bhikkhu also specifically told me not to find a therapist that would medicate me (not for schizophrenia but for another issue), but to find one to help me deal with these issues without medication. There is this one family friend who has to stay in a mental ward for the rest of his life because the medication caused permanent brain damage. His parents regret ever having him put on medication. I'm glad the medication works for you, but I will try a different path for now until something really bad happens. Thanks for the warning. As for the staying in seclusion for 4 years part, I was under the impression that the Buddha praised seclusion and that was part of the practice.
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