karmic cause of schizophrenia

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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beeblebrox
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by beeblebrox » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:38 pm

I didn't notice your other thread till later... hope that goes well. I'm still glad to see you're around.

:anjali:
Last edited by beeblebrox on Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Moth
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Moth » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:02 pm

I am a living example... unfortunately... :weep:
What exactly is your condition? Predisposed Schizophrenia induced by hallucinogens? HPPD?
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
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Individual
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Individual » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:17 pm

Moth wrote:
I am a living example... unfortunately... :weep:
What exactly is your condition? Predisposed Schizophrenia induced by hallucinogens? HPPD?
Bipolar disorder, largely triggered by marijuana use

But I saw all kinds of strange visions and delusions... Thought I was Hitler, Jesus, Buddha, Charles Manson, etc..

I may have also punched a wall without having any conscious recollection of it.

Someday, I will also have parkinson's disease from using ecstasy too... Drugs are always bad. Always.. Except medicines.
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Viscid
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Viscid » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:52 pm

Individual wrote: Bipolar disorder, largely triggered by marijuana use

Someday, I will also have parkinson's disease from using ecstasy too... Drugs are always bad. Always.. Except medicines.
MDMA/Ecstasy has not been shown to cause parkinson's disease.

Declaring drug use as a direct, sole cause for a mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder is a gross oversimplication of its pathology. I get the impression the overzealous do this to illustrate that moral failings will lead to permanent suffering, justifying and motivating abstinence through fear.
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cooran
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by cooran » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:14 pm

Hello all,

This link and the citations on the RHS regarding recent research might assist in clarifying he link between marijuana and schizophrenia
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19080993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:36 pm

Viscid wrote:
Individual wrote: Bipolar disorder, largely triggered by marijuana use

Someday, I will also have parkinson's disease from using ecstasy too... Drugs are always bad. Always.. Except medicines.
MDMA/Ecstasy has not been shown to cause parkinson's disease.

Declaring drug use as a direct, sole cause for a mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder is a gross oversimplication of its pathology. I get the impression the overzealous do this to illustrate that moral failings will lead to permanent suffering, justifying and motivating abstinence through fear.
Quite so. The most that we can say with some degree of certainty is that some people are predisposed to certain conditions and that substances for example marijuana, can serve as a trigger for those conditions. Heredity is a an important element here.

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tiltbillings
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:59 pm

Individual wrote:
Moth wrote:
I am a living example... unfortunately... :weep:
What exactly is your condition? Predisposed Schizophrenia induced by hallucinogens? HPPD?
Bipolar disorder, largely triggered by marijuana use
It might exacerbate it, it might cause it to manifest earlier, but pot does not cause it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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cooran
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by cooran » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:31 pm

Hello all,

Cannabis use can be considered a component cause [of schizophrenia]…..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19080993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:54 pm

cooran wrote:Hello all,

Cannabis use can be considered a component cause [of schizophrenia]…..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19080993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
The question is, will these kids become psychotic without pot?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:17 pm

I dont think that at the moment with our present state of knowledge we can yet answer that Tilt...
But there are good reasons to avoid pot, including the relevant precept.

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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Prasadachitta » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:57 pm

Hi all,

I have had extensive long term direct experience of preteen pot use among a large number of people. What I can say is not scientific but comes from my observation. Generally speaking it is my opinion that pot abuse among young people is not as broadly detrimental as most other substances including alcohol. That being said, I have noticed a certain number of young pot abusers with the common angst and confusion of coming to maturity go uncommonly awry. What can be expected to be an awkward transition with hormones and increased cultural expectations becomes a sometimes violent sometimes pathologically depressing affair. Of course there are always these kind of reactions to life without pot use but It seems to me to be quiet a bit more prevalent and acute among those who abuse very early and heavily.

As an aside, I was one of those kids who abused young and heavily. I guess I was lucky or was it Karma? Whatever. As Chris pointed out "Cannabis use can be considered a component cause" not a "sufficient cause".

Also it is my opinion that Karma is always a component of a sufficient cause.

Take care

and Just say no Kids :toast: unless you want to gamble with this precious life.

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Nibbida
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Nibbida » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:05 am

PeterB wrote:
Viscid wrote:
Individual wrote: Bipolar disorder, largely triggered by marijuana use

Someday, I will also have parkinson's disease from using ecstasy too... Drugs are always bad. Always.. Except medicines.
MDMA/Ecstasy has not been shown to cause parkinson's disease.

Declaring drug use as a direct, sole cause for a mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder is a gross oversimplication of its pathology. I get the impression the overzealous do this to illustrate that moral failings will lead to permanent suffering, justifying and motivating abstinence through fear.
Quite so. The most that we can say with some degree of certainty is that some people are predisposed to certain conditions and that substances for example marijuana, can serve as a trigger for those conditions. Heredity is a an important element here.
Ditto. Marijuana is such a politically and emotionally charged topic that finding truly objective research is rare. Much research is done with an economic and/or personal agenda. Without getting into a big thing about methodology, there is no evidence that marijuana (or hallucinogens) are a sufficient cause for schizophrenia. The only people for whom those drugs trigger a lasting psychosis are those who have a predisposition, where the drugs serve as a trigger, not a cause of the disease. The same is true of bipolar disorder.

This study just came out on ecstasy, indicating that it's effects in humans have been exaggerated in previous studies which didn't have appropriate controls:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/ ... -new-study

That's not to say that these are completely harmless, much less advisable. I don't touch any drugs, and I don't even drink alcohol anymore. A few years ago, after two years of meditating and no alcohol, I tried one drink to see if my reaction to it had changed. I couldn't stand the way it made me feel. It felt numb and artificial. You couldn't pay me to drink it at this point.

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Ben
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Ben » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:10 am

I'm wondering whether a meta-study has been done on the literature?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
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PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by PeterB » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:30 am

They are works in progress Ben..The vast majority of Mental Health professionals in the English speaking world are convinced by the argument that cannabis is a powerful trigger factor in both Schizophrenia and Bipolar...

A lesser known health factor associated with some forms of cannabis use is the reporting of higher levels of lung disease among the younger age group. Cannabis in both resin and leaf form is very high in tars.

One of the problems in discussing any of this with cannabis users is the high level of denial among them.

They will pick out the one study that is atypical in its findings and ignore the other fifty six studies as being the work of "The Man."
In reality of course The Man would be as keen to tax this , as he is to tax booze..

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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Post by Annapurna » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:27 pm

:thumbsup:

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