How important is The Buddha to Buddhism?

[Viscid]

To what degree is belief in the historical existence of The Buddha necessary?

If the story of The Buddha was, say, a fictional creation of the First Buddhist council in order to homogenize teachings of different teachers, would that impact the practical implications of Buddhism all that much? Is the Buddha required, or is the Dhamma and Sangha sufficient?

[Cloud]

The Tipitaka has been analyzed and has been found to be remarkably consistent to the point that it would be very improbable that there were different authors; it seems to be the work of one individual, in contrast to... say... the Bible.

We only need to understand that someone realized full/complete enlightenment and taught a clear path for others to do so. If we don't consider this to be "the Buddha", then who? Might as well go along with it. IMHO this individual did exist, just as Jesus of Nazareth did exist.

It's hard to take refuge in the Buddha as our teacher, and thus in his teachings and the community of monks/nuns (and those who awakened) if we don't believe in the Buddha in the first place.

[Goofaholix]

I don't think belief in the historical existence of the Buddha is necessary.

[bodom]

If the Buddha did not exist does that change the reality of suffering and its end?

[Wizard in the Forest]

Nope, but it's pretty consistent and the relics are kind of evidence of his existence.

[Nicholas Weeks]

To what degree is belief in the historical existence of The Buddha necessary?

If the story of The Buddha was, say, a fictional creation of the First Buddhist council in order to homogenize teachings of different teachers, would that impact the practical implications of Buddhism all that much? Is the Buddha required, or is the Dhamma and Sangha sufficient?

It is essential to have a Buddha. If no Buddha, then there is no exemplar of one who knew the causes & ending of suffering. If no successful Guru, then all is theory or speculation.

Gadzooks - the noxious questions that come up.

[Euclid]

But there's no 'proven theory' regardless - it's only proven when you realise it to be true, of your own accord.

[Goedert]

As a buddhist, I bow down to the Buddha and lay down on the floor, so that he can pass trough my whole body and his feets stay clean.

[Nicholas Weeks]

But there's no 'proven theory' regardless - it's only proven when you realise it to be true, of your own accord.

See my edit above - is that acceptable?

I do not see how one person's "realisation" can be true, if there is no standard to contrast it with. It can feel true or appear true, but unless confirmed by someone wiser - is it?

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[Individual]

Could've been a fictional character and the teachings still work.

Disbelieving the guy existed, though, makes the magic impossible.

[Ceisiwr]

To what degree is belief in the historical existence of The Buddha necessary?

If the story of The Buddha was, say, a fictional creation of the First Buddhist council in order to homogenize teachings of different teachers, would that impact the practical implications of Buddhism all that much? Is the Buddha required, or is the Dhamma and Sangha sufficient?

Regardless of if a historical Buddha existed I know the teachings help improve my life


So no it doesnt really matter if he did live or not, at least to me

[KonstantKarma]

I'm not the Amazing Buddhist at all but it seems to me, the Buddha is not the core of the teaching, it's the Buddhadhamma. In Christianity, Jesus is the core of the teaching - the salvation comes from the man, not the life he led. No Jesus = No savior and no salvation. In Buddhism refuge is not solely placed in the existence of Gautama.

[Cloud]

What's important is that there is someone to look up to as an example; someone who's "been there, done that" already. This is not only the Buddha, but also the noble ones (Ariya) that have come after, which can take the form of various Bodhisattvas etc. by some schools or simply the conviction that there have been others who have been liberated since the Buddha's time. There's a reason that there's a Triple Gem.

[BlackBird]

I think it's of the utmost importance. The idea that this great teaching was passed down by a person who actually knew and saw the minds of man and the world for what it is, a person who understood the human condition and how to put an end to suffering. If some guys just got together and made the whole story up, then there's not much credibility to the practice, nor the idea of enlightenment.

I don't think Buddhism makes sense without the Buddha.

"As I reflected thus, my mind inclined to dwelling at ease, not to teaching the Dhamma.

"Then Brahma Sahampati, having known with his own awareness the line of thinking in my awareness, thought: 'The world is lost! The world is destroyed! The mind of the Tathagata, the Arahant, the Rightly Self-awakened One inclines to dwelling at ease, not to teaching the Dhamma!' Then, just as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm, Brahma Sahampati disappeared from the Brahma-world and reappeared in front of me. Arranging his upper robe over one shoulder, he knelt down with his right knee on the ground, saluted me with his hands before his heart, and said to me: 'Lord, let the Blessed One teach the Dhamma! Let the One-Well-Gone teach the Dhamma! There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.'

"That is what Brahma Sahampati said. Having said that, he further said this:


'In the past
there appeared among the Magadhans
an impure Dhamma
devised by the stained.
Throw open the door to the Deathless!
Let them hear the Dhamma
realized by the Stainless One!

Just as one standing on a rocky crag
might see people
all around below,
So, O wise
one, with all-around vision,
ascend the palace
fashioned of Dhamma.
Free from sorrow, behold the people
submerged in sorrow,
oppressed by birth & aging.

Rise up, hero, victor in battle!
O Teacher, wander without debt in the world.
Teach the Dhamma, O Blessed One:
There will be those who will understand.'
"Then, having understood Brahma's invitation, out of compassion for beings, I surveyed the world with the eye of an Awakened One. As I did so, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and those with much, those with keen faculties and those with dull, those with good attributes and those with bad, those easy to teach and those hard, some of them seeing disgrace & danger in the other world. Just as in a pond of blue or red or white lotuses, some lotuses — born & growing in the water — might flourish while immersed in the water, without rising up from the water; some might stand at an even level with the water; while some might rise up from the water and stand without being smeared by the water — so too, surveying the world with the eye of an Awakened One, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and those with much, those with keen faculties and those with dull, those with good attributes and those with bad, those easy to teach and those hard, some of them seeing disgrace & danger in the other world.

"Having seen this, I answered Brahma Sahampati in verse:


'Open are the doors to the Deathless
to those with ears.
Let them show their conviction...

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That verse always brings me to awe, it's inspiring.