something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

gabrielbranbury wrote: ?Que?
Hvað? Cad é? Mi az? מה? Apa? เป็นอย่างไร Qu'est-ce? Cosa? Quid? Vad? क्या?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

Individual wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Damdifino. I am too confused by the "letters" statement to figure out what you just said. This thread has been an ongoing exercise confusing statements.
What I said is directly related to it. :)

When you say, "Huh?" you are an expressing a mental state of confusion. It's not necessarily your fault. If somebody comes up to you and screams gibberish, grabs your collar, and drools on you, in that situation too you could feel a bit confused.

You might say, "Huh?" in that situation too.

If you say, "Huh?" that's a mental state.

The question is: When you say, "Huh?" is it the same mental state each time or is it an entirely new mental state?
Ah, I get it now. You weren't making a funny; you wre asking a didactic question. It is a mental state arising interdependently upon conditions. To say that it is entirely new would be inappropriate as it would be to say that it is the entirely the same, nor can one really say that it is both or neither.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Individual
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by Individual »

tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Damdifino. I am too confused by the "letters" statement to figure out what you just said. This thread has been an ongoing exercise confusing statements.
What I said is directly related to it. :)

When you say, "Huh?" you are an expressing a mental state of confusion. It's not necessarily your fault. If somebody comes up to you and screams gibberish, grabs your collar, and drools on you, in that situation too you could feel a bit confused.

You might say, "Huh?" in that situation too.

If you say, "Huh?" that's a mental state.

The question is: When you say, "Huh?" is it the same mental state each time or is it an entirely new mental state?
Ah, I get it now. You weren't making a funny; you wre asking a didactic question. It is a mental state arising interdependently upon conditions. To say that it is entirely new would be inappropriate as it would be to say that it is the entirely the same, nor can one really say that it is both or neither.
Exactly.

Now if you apply that to all named phenomena?
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

Individual wrote: Exactly.

Now if you apply that to all named phenomena?
And your point is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Individual
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by Individual »

tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote: Exactly.

Now if you apply that to all named phenomena?
And your point is?
Regarding, "Huh?" being a state of confusion, you said:
tiltbillings wrote:It is a mental state arising interdependently upon conditions. To say that it is entirely new would be inappropriate as it would be to say that it is the entirely the same, nor can one really say that it is both or neither.
The point is this:
Ñāṇa wrote: Noa Ronkin, Early Buddhist Metaphysics: The Making of a Philosophical Tradition (p. 247):

"Neither conceptualizing, nor conceptualizing wrongly, nor lacking conceptualization, nor conceptualizing nothing – in one who has achieved this state sensory recognizable experience (rupa) ceases, for what is called ‘verbal proliferation’ (papañca) has its origin in conceptualization.”
  • Conceptualizing -- it is the same
  • Conceptualizing wrongly -- it is different
  • Lacking conceptualization -- it is both
  • Conceptualizing nothing -- It is neither
And it is not really "my" point. It is something you already seem to know. :)
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

Individual wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote: Exactly.

Now if you apply that to all named phenomena?
And your point is?
Regarding, "Huh?" being a state of confusion, you said:
tiltbillings wrote:It is a mental state arising interdependently upon conditions. To say that it is entirely new would be inappropriate as it would be to say that it is the entirely the same, nor can one really say that it is both or neither.
The point is this:
Ñāṇa wrote: Noa Ronkin, Early Buddhist Metaphysics: The Making of a Philosophical Tradition (p. 247):

"Neither conceptualizing, nor conceptualizing wrongly, nor lacking conceptualization, nor conceptualizing nothing – in one who has achieved this state sensory recognizable experience (rupa) ceases, for what is called ‘verbal proliferation’ (papañca) has its origin in conceptualization.”
  • Conceptualizing -- it is the same
  • Conceptualizing wrongly -- it is different
  • Lacking conceptualization -- it is both
  • Conceptualizing nothing -- It is neither
And it is not really "my" point. It is something you already seem to know. :)
And your point is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Individual
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by Individual »

That we should stop grasping for points to latch onto
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

Individual wrote:That we should stop grasping for points to latch onto
And you have a good grasp of that point, do you?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by Prasadachitta »

:tantrum:>> :computerproblem:>> :rofl: >> :bow: >> :meditate:
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by retrofuturist »

tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote:That we should stop grasping for points to latch onto
And you have a good grasp of that point, do you?
Image
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote:That we should stop grasping for points to latch onto
And you have a good grasp of that point, do you?
Image
Image

Aaaaah!!!!! The Pet Shop Boys, run away!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Aaaaah!!!!! The Pet Shop Boys, run away!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, that stance is something that has endured unchanged for at least a certain interval.

:D

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Aaaaah!!!!! The Pet Shop Boys, run away!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, that stance is something that has endured unchanged for at least a certain interval.

:D

Metta,
Retro. :)
You are right. I concede. I am now going to order all of Nanavira's books. Wait, I'll take that back; my not wanting to read Nanavira's books has not changed and thusly my identity over time has been maintained.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by retrofuturist »

:rofl:
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Post by Sanghamitta »

Ah but Tilt would your stance remain unchanged of you went ahead and ordered the books...and then didn't read them ?
Or if you didn't order the books...but read them ?
Or both ordered and then cancelled them ?
Or didn't order or cancel or read them ?

We must leave no semantic stone unturned in the relentless search for Enlightenment.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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