the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Luca123 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:31 am

Circle5 wrote:In order to know what happens with consciousness after death, one first needs to know through what mechanism consciousness originated. If one does not know that mechanism, then he can never know if it will originate again through the same mechanism (the he does not know) or not. And today in 2017, the mystery of origination of consciousness has not been solved and is called "the hard problem of consciousness". More than this, materialism has been refuted through numerous scientific discoveries.

Understanding rebirth is one of the difficult parts of buddhism that requires first understanding other things such as no-self, how the 5 aggregates work and many more. But even for a random not knowing anything about buddhism, rebirth should be the natural, most plausible expectation. Just like you appeared in this life, you will appear again in the future through the same mechanism. Dreamily you appeared now, dreamily you will appear again. And because it's the most logical thing to expect, it has been the most popular view in ancient times at the beginning of first religions. And it is still a popular view today, about 30% of europeans believing in rebirth no matter if the country is strongly christian or strongly atheist.

If we follow the number of people who believe in this or that, we should all be Christians apparently

Christianity 2.2 billion[3] 31.50%
Islam 1.6 billion[4] 22.32%
Secular[a]/Nonreligious[b]/Agnostic/Atheist ≤1.1 billion 15.35%
Hinduism 1 billion 13.95%
Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million 5.50%
Buddhism 376 million 5.25%

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:36 am

I was looking again recently at the idea of moment-to-moment rebirth. I can see why it's a popular alternative, but does it really hold up under close examination? I'm not convinced that it does.

What is actually supposed to be "reborn" moment-to-moment? You could say that habits or tendencies are continually reborn, but by definition those persist over time, so saying they are "reborn" doesn't really make sense. You could say that "I" is continually reborn, but in the suttas the fetters of self-view and conceit look like deep-seated habits, and so the same problem applies.

Looking at the anatta doctrine, you could say we are processes rather than entities, but that means there is really nothing to be "reborn".

Also I see very little support for moment-to-moment rebirth in the suttas, where birth and death are invariably described as physical rather than purely mental events.

By the way, I'm not arguing in favour of post-mortem rebirth here. I am suggesting that many of the same difficulties apply to moment-to-moment rebirth, and that these difficulties are too often glossed over for the sake of convenience.

Your thoughts?
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby justindesilva » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:32 pm

chownah wrote:
justindesilva wrote:This book is widely accepted. ........

His studies had been widely accepted ........

The book has also been widely rejected.
His studies have also been widely rejected.

If you type "rebirth stories of sri lanka" one can get webs describing many proven or studied cases in Sri Lanka of re births. Please try.

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby justindesilva » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:05 pm

Also please read : rebirth
This relates some interesting and investigated re birth cases.

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