Re: What is meant by existence (atthi)?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:19 am
Hi chownah,
Quote:
"Sounds to me like the "actual eye" is part of some external world....and from the point of view I have been providing this means that it is something that is construed. The Buddha advises against construing I think...after all the Thatagata does not construe...I think. From this point of view, when construing stops the eye no longer exists...I think. Afterall, the eye has no self so the eye as we conceive of it does not really exist and if it has any existence at all of its own it is something that we are not able to experience with our limited ability...I think...but not sure."
An interesting interpretation. But I think you go too far. It is the 'eye' construed or conceived as 'mine' or 'belonging to self', that must cease. That is all that is required for enlightenment. The Buddha says that the eye exists, see for example the Kotthita Sutta SN 35.191 [ PTS S iv 162 ]:
"There is an eye in the Blessed One. The Blessed One sees forms with the eye. There is
no desire or passion in the Blessed One. The Blessed One is well-released in mind.
"There is an ear in the Blessed One...
"There is a nose in the Blessed One...
"There is a tongue in the Blessed One...
"There is a body in the Blessed One...
"There is an intellect in the Blessed One. The Blessed One knows ideas with the
intellect. There is no desire or passion in the Blessed One. The Blessed One is well-released in mind."
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Bodhi [ Connected Discourses, 35.232, page 1231] Translates as:
"There exists in the Blessed One the eye, the Blessed One sees a form with the eye, yet
there is no desire and lust in the Blessed One; the Blessed One is well liberated in mind."
Note the use of the word 'see' in these passages. When they speak of 'eye', 'forms' and 'seeing', that refers to actual things. When they speak of 'eye', 'forms' and 'visual consciousness', that refers to the mis-conception of these things as being related to self.
Best wishes, Vincent.
Quote:
"Sounds to me like the "actual eye" is part of some external world....and from the point of view I have been providing this means that it is something that is construed. The Buddha advises against construing I think...after all the Thatagata does not construe...I think. From this point of view, when construing stops the eye no longer exists...I think. Afterall, the eye has no self so the eye as we conceive of it does not really exist and if it has any existence at all of its own it is something that we are not able to experience with our limited ability...I think...but not sure."
An interesting interpretation. But I think you go too far. It is the 'eye' construed or conceived as 'mine' or 'belonging to self', that must cease. That is all that is required for enlightenment. The Buddha says that the eye exists, see for example the Kotthita Sutta SN 35.191 [ PTS S iv 162 ]:
"There is an eye in the Blessed One. The Blessed One sees forms with the eye. There is
no desire or passion in the Blessed One. The Blessed One is well-released in mind.
"There is an ear in the Blessed One...
"There is a nose in the Blessed One...
"There is a tongue in the Blessed One...
"There is a body in the Blessed One...
"There is an intellect in the Blessed One. The Blessed One knows ideas with the
intellect. There is no desire or passion in the Blessed One. The Blessed One is well-released in mind."
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Bodhi [ Connected Discourses, 35.232, page 1231] Translates as:
"There exists in the Blessed One the eye, the Blessed One sees a form with the eye, yet
there is no desire and lust in the Blessed One; the Blessed One is well liberated in mind."
Note the use of the word 'see' in these passages. When they speak of 'eye', 'forms' and 'seeing', that refers to actual things. When they speak of 'eye', 'forms' and 'visual consciousness', that refers to the mis-conception of these things as being related to self.
Best wishes, Vincent.