Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Meezer77
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Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Meezer77 »

I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions? I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Sam Vara »

Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions?
Yes, it's possible, I suppose, but communal oral recitation made it unlikely that ideas and influences could just be slipped in; that's much more likely to happen if people rely on a text which can be re-authored at any time.
I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
Blimey! Which ones? :shock:
Meezer77
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Meezer77 »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:49 pm
Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions?
Yes, it's possible, I suppose, but communal oral recitation made it unlikely that ideas and influences could just be slipped in; that's much more likely to happen if people rely on a text which can be re-authored at any time.
I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
Blimey! Which ones? :shock:
Well the celibacy rules for monks and nuns, they’re not allowed to masturbate. In the catechism masturbation is considered to be a sin. There’s confession, and holy water. Some of the prostrations I’ve seen are similar. But that aside I’m wondering how to tell what is true Buddhism or wrong interpretation.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Sam Vara »

Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:00 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:49 pm
Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions?
Yes, it's possible, I suppose, but communal oral recitation made it unlikely that ideas and influences could just be slipped in; that's much more likely to happen if people rely on a text which can be re-authored at any time.
I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
Blimey! Which ones? :shock:
Well the celibacy rules for monks and nuns, they’re not allowed to masturbate. In the catechism masturbation is considered to be a sin. There’s confession, and holy water. Some of the prostrations I’ve seen are similar. But that aside I’m wondering how to tell what is true Buddhism or wrong interpretation.
I live and learn! :anjali:

I guess the test for me is whether it helps my practice. There are several lengthy and deep threads here on DW where the authenticity of suttas and vinaya are discussed. I'm very far from being an expert. It might be possible, though, that phenomena like prostration, water, confession, etc., are extra-cultural; just part of our human makeup so that they are found in many places throughout the world to express fundamental human concepts and feelings like gratitude, awe, purity, and the like.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

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Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions? I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.

Before the printed press and mass media oral traditions could be more reliable than the written word. If we compare a scribe to the communal oral tradition it was easier for the scribe to introduce his own changes or ideas into a text than for a monk to change the chanted suttas and vinaya, since his chanting would be off.
"Analysis and synthesis are praised by the wise,
liberation in the Sāsana comes from analysis and synthesis;
the purpose of the method of analysis and synthesis is the ultimate"


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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Ceisiwr »

As for celibacy, confession etc these are quite common to renunciate traditions. In fact it would be strange if they didn’t have those things in common.
"Analysis and synthesis are praised by the wise,
liberation in the Sāsana comes from analysis and synthesis;
the purpose of the method of analysis and synthesis is the ultimate"


Nāmarūpapariccheda
Spiny Norman
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Spiny Norman »

Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I just recently found out that the Buddha’s teachings were passed down orally for the first 450 years after his death before they were written down and the Pāli Canon came about. I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions? I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
What we have now is only approximate, and the same is true of all ancient religious texts.
It's probably best to treat all texts as provisional, and see what meaning you can derive from them.
You will find various scholars and "experts" claiming that one text or interpretation is more original than another, and so on.
Yeah, whatever. Keep guessing.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Meezer77
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Meezer77 »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:06 pm
Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:00 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:49 pm

Yes, it's possible, I suppose, but communal oral recitation made it unlikely that ideas and influences could just be slipped in; that's much more likely to happen if people rely on a text which can be re-authored at any time.

Do you know the name or have the link to the thread where the authenticity is discussed?


Blimey! Which ones? :shock:
Well the celibacy rules for monks and nuns, they’re not allowed to masturbate. In the catechism masturbation is considered to be a sin. There’s confession, and holy water. Some of the prostrations I’ve seen are similar. But that aside I’m wondering how to tell what is true Buddhism or wrong interpretation.
I live and learn! :anjali:

I guess the test for me is whether it helps my practice. There are several lengthy and deep threads here on DW where the authenticity of suttas and vinaya are discussed. I'm very far from being an expert. It might be possible, though, that phenomena like prostration, water, confession, etc., are extra-cultural; just part of our human makeup so that they are found in many places throughout the world to express fundamental human concepts and feelings like gratitude, awe, purity, and the like.
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Aloka
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Aloka »

Hi Meezer77,

This might be of interest:

The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts by Bhikkhu Sujato & Bhikkhu Brahmali

https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ticity.pdf


.
:anjali:
Meezer77
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Meezer77 »

Aloka wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:21 pm Hi Meezer77,

This might be of interest:

The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts by Bhikkhu Sujato & Bhikkhu Brahmali

https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ticity.pdf


.
:anjali:
Thanks 🙏 I’m sure I’ll enjoy reading it
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cappuccino
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by cappuccino »

Meezer77 wrote: I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in …
Gotama was very likely single

(no wife)
Meezer77
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by Meezer77 »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:16 am
Meezer77 wrote: I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in …
Gotama was very likely single

(no wife)
Eh? I wasn’t suggesting he wasn’t. Unsure where you’re coming from here...
kalyana.mitta
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by kalyana.mitta »

Meezer77 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in, or there have been influences from other religions? I see a lot of similarities in the Vinaya and the Catholic catechism.
Surely lots of things have been added in the present day which makes it harder for people to learn the true dhamma. But before, it wasn't.
- In the first Dhamma council, all the monks that attended were Arahants. And they wouldn't have any intention of changing the teachings.
- The suttas were said by Arahant Ananda, who was foremost in remembering the Dhamma next from the Buddha.
From what I know all the suttas in the sutta Pitaka(Digha Nikaya, Majjhima Nikaya,etc.) are original and unaltered.
"Whatever treasure in this world or in other any worlds, whatever precious jewel there is in the heavens, none is equal to the Buddha. In the Buddha is this precious jewel. By there truth, may there be wellbeing."
:candle: Ratana Sutta | Sn 2.1 :candle:
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markandeya
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Re: Buddhism today compared to 2500 years ago

Post by markandeya »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:16 am
Meezer77 wrote: I wonder if it’s possible that things may have been added in …
Gotama was very likely single

(no wife)
Gautama is a gotra originating from rig Veda

Source of each gotra are from rishis that dwells on the edge of brahmanda and teach in lineages

The story of siddharta is from nath sampradaya. As per today’s Buddhism no comments
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