Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
confusedlayman
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by confusedlayman » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:19 pm

parietina wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:33 pm
Firstly I find the notion of any sort of afterlife distasteful. Annihilation is preferable to a series of mental events. Annihilation is a fair reward after the struggle for existence in this life and the thought of final extinction is very comforting.

The burden of consciousness continuing after the death of the carbon based body is upsetting. Give me nothingness every-time. As an atomist, I accept the universe of Matter exists, independent of Mind. Not only that but the substance of reality is hard and unwieldy to consciousness. We live in a universe of 'Matter-Only' and consciousness is a by-product, an epiphenomena or disease of matter. I'd prefer it to be extinguished completely.

I have found no empirical evidence of Karma. The biological kingdom of life called animalia is competitive and fierce. Moral intention has little or no reward and is often detrimental to survival. Aggressive behaviour is often rewarded.

An Epicurean society would suit me. Atheistic, apolitical and striving for the tranquility that comes with absence of pain and absence of life. No clear distinction and differentiation between human and non-human life. People would remain single and procreation would be frowned upon. Euthanasia both voluntary and in-voluntary would be accepted and welcomed. Homosexuality encouraged from a young age and the age of consent abolished. The heterosexual family unit will be dismantled but not before it has been perverted and corrupted. Organized religion will be denigrated (particularly Christianity and Islam with their emphasis on 'family values') and mediums and clairvoyants marginalized.

'I was not, I was, I am not, I do not care.'
Karma is there. Because dependent origination is there. When I jump in to fire, I feel heat and burn. If I jump into ice, I feel cold. Each action has conditional effect. Some gives immediate effect that can be cognised some not like that. Not knowing karma, beings do bad and suffer later. If action has no consequence, then if I shoot u, u should not die but that’s not how it is. Action has consequence, that’s why we do action to get consequence.


If rebirth don’t exist, why u enjoy so,e benefit which others don’t? If it’s luck, then why people with hard work and right effort can change their destiny?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

befriend
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by befriend » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:27 pm

If you like Buddhism but aren't into hearing about heavens and hells you should read or listen to Ajahn sumedho he keeps Buddhism practical.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Will
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Will » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:05 pm

parietina wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:39 pm
Any form of afterlife terrifies me... So the only option for an afterlife remaining is some kind of dream-state which sounds horrible. Better ever lasting anaesthesia.
If you really crave annihilation after life, then you must stop dreaming and thinking - now. Every thought about what if, every thought soaked thru with 'terror', even philosophical thoughts are forms of energy that will not fade away before your body dies or is killed, especially if you keep thinking, wondering & dreaming.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Tathāgatas.

alfa
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by alfa » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:43 am

Will wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:05 pm
parietina wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:39 pm
Any form of afterlife terrifies me... So the only option for an afterlife remaining is some kind of dream-state which sounds horrible. Better ever lasting anaesthesia.
If you really crave annihilation after life, then you must stop dreaming and thinking - now. Every thought about what if, every thought soaked thru with 'terror', even philosophical thoughts are forms of energy that will not fade away before your body dies or is killed, especially if you keep thinking, wondering & dreaming.
Generation observation. I don't think anyone really craves annihilation. if they did, they wouldn't be posting about it on a forum, lol. People say that to convince themselves that they don't want continuity after death. Actually, they do.

Placidium
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Placidium » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:11 pm

chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:38 am
If your response is heartfelt then I do not understand why you do not wholely embrace buddhism and why you cling to your identity of being an epicurian....it seems to me to be unlikely that a someone who identifies with being a "very weak and pathetic person wracked by social anxiety" would have the clarity of mind to obtain a good understanding of epicurianism....unlikely that the clarity of mind woud exist in that person which would allow that person to understand the results of epicurianism. On the other hand, buddhism is all about developing inner resources......
I've looked into various philosophical systems and Buddhism and Epicureanism have impressed me the most. Epicureanism is more subversive and more threatening to traditional social mores. Both philosophical systems will have a place in the post-singularity landscape, while hopefully Christianity, Islam and any philosophy underpinned by conservative traditionalism will be consigned to the dustbin of history. However I think there is still a lot we can do to undermine family values before the singularity.

I'd love you to develop your idea on how medical science can realize Epicurean hedonism and how this will intersect with the coming singularity? Artificial intelligence should be used for maximum utilitarian effect.

Was Buddhism an early form of Transhumanism?

Placidium
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Placidium » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 pm

Ceisiwr wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:51 pm
I’m talking about the family unit itself, not if it’s gay or straight. The family unit is the bedrock of society and acts as a stable and fertile ground to raise offspring in.
The traditional heterosexual family unit is the underlying cause of tribal and territorial behaviour in society. Some of the most aggressive thugs I've ever met have been smug parents who delight in making people without families feel insignificant. I hope the heterosexual family unit is completely destabilized and corrupted.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:49 am

parietina wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 pm
The traditional heterosexual family unit is the underlying cause of tribal and territorial behaviour in society. Some of the most aggressive thugs I've ever met have been smug parents who delight in making people without families feel insignificant. I hope the heterosexual family unit is completely destabilized and corrupted.
With what do you propose to replace it?
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

SteRo
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by SteRo » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:27 pm

parietina wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:11 pm
...
I've looked into various philosophical systems and Buddhism and Epicureanism have impressed me the most. Epicureanism is more subversive and more threatening to traditional social mores. Both philosophical systems will have a place in the post-singularity landscape, while hopefully Christianity, Islam and any philosophy underpinned by conservative traditionalism will be consigned to the dustbin of history. However I think there is still a lot we can do to undermine family values before the singularity.
...
The Buddha's teachings is appropriate to overcome ill-will based on aversion and self-identity views as to the world which is why I'd prefer it over Epicureanism.

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zerotime
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by zerotime » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:51 pm

parietina wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:33 pm
Firstly I find the notion of any sort of afterlife distasteful. Annihilation is preferable to a series of mental events. Annihilation is a fair reward after the struggle for existence in this life and the thought of final extinction is very comforting.
there are many examples of kamma. None of annihilation.

In your words the defence of annihilation is only based to be no "distasteful" and because this is a "fair reward". I wonder how somebody can keep such illogical belief in annihilation while at same time he is looking for rationality.

nmjojola
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by nmjojola » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:37 pm

parietina wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:33 pm
I have found no empirical evidence of kamma
Why should you?

Placidium
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Placidium » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:47 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:49 am
parietina wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 pm
The traditional heterosexual family unit is the underlying cause of tribal and territorial behaviour in society. Some of the most aggressive thugs I've ever met have been smug parents who delight in making people without families feel insignificant. I hope the heterosexual family unit is completely destabilized and corrupted.
With what do you propose to replace it?
Have you never read Brave New World?

Placidium
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by Placidium » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:52 pm

After some thought I've decided to bow out of this topic. I have nothing further to add and would only be restating my initial position. I am not an Epicurean or a Buddhist unfortunately.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why I'm an Epicurean and not a Buddhist

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:57 pm

Greetings,
parietina wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:52 pm
After some thought I've decided to bow out of this topic. I have nothing further to add and would only be restating my initial position. I am not an Epicurean or a Buddhist unfortunately.
And with that, the topic is closed.

If anyone wishes to pick up any threads from this topic to start a new one, by all means please do.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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