Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sam Vara
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:25 pm
SteRo wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:38 am
1. Pondering the practice of others may cause unwholesome doubt as to one's own practice: Maybe theirs is better? Maybe I should try their practice because there is no progress with my practice? ... and the like
This is interesting. I was raised to think that comparing oneself to others and keeping up with them is essential in life in general, and esp. in religion/spirituality.
I know both drawbacks from my own experience. Maybe there is a middle way of rejecting practice of others due to doctrinal reasons without committing the second fault? Or maybe best is to not ponder the practice of others? So I wondered ...
Well, comparisons seem inevitable, and are not always bad. One might learn something from others, after all.
Soṇa, when any ascetics and brahmins, on the basis of form—which is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change—regard themselves thus: ‘I am superior,’ or ‘I am equal,’ or ‘I am inferior,’ what is that due to apart from not seeing things as they really are?

“When any ascetics and brahmins, on the basis of feeling … on the basis of perception … on the basis of volitional formations … on the basis of consciousness—which is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change—regard themselves thus: ‘I am superior,’ or ‘I am equal,’ or ‘I am inferior,’ what is that due to apart from not seeing things as they really are?
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.49/en/bodhi

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No_Mind
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by No_Mind » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:04 am

Pulsar wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:49 pm
No_Mind wrote
"they are mostly middle aged women and quite pretty"
Are you talking of the Nicheren sect? I am so unfamiliar with this sect, can you elaborate?
Have you been to their meetings?
No, I am talking of SGI which claims to be Nichiren. I have not been to their meetings.

Oddly enough, there is a Nichiren Temple (probably only one in India) close to where I live. Japanese monks live there. They do not talk to outsiders. Do not preach.

The temple is located besides a 70 acre park and a large lake. When I used to run in early morning (30 years back) I saw the monks walk briskly around the lake with a very focused look, chanting something.

These middle aged women chant "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" at top of their voice and believe in manifestation. Nothing like the monks.

I detest public display of foolish behavior.
binocular wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:04 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 am
I think if someone is with SGI they should be told they are not Buddhists.
And if they put you on the spot and demand you to declare your attainment?
Are you of the opinion that I cannot tutor basic Buddhism 101 to someone should they wish to learn it?

I might not be a learned scholar but can surely give someone a three hour introduction to Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta, Anattalakkhana Sutta, Kalama Sutta and few others as well as basic concept of Paticcasamuppada.

Point is do those women have the bandwidth to learn? How many people have you met in life who had the bandwidth? You did not choose the Dhamma, it chose you.

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus

Pulsar
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by Pulsar » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:39 pm

No_Mind wrote
Pulsar wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:49 am
No_Mind wrote
"they are mostly middle aged women and quite pretty"
Are you talking of the Nicheren sect? I am so unfamiliar with this sect, can you elaborate?
Have you been to their meetings?
No, I am talking of SGI which claims to be Nichiren. I have not been to their meetings.

Oddly enough, there is a Nichiren Temple (probably only one in India) close to where I live. Japanese monks live there. They do not talk to outsiders. Do not preach.

The temple is located besides a 70 acre park and a large lake. When I used to run in early morning (30 years back) I saw the monks walk briskly around the lake with a very focused look, chanting something.

These middle aged women chant "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" at top of their voice and believe in manifestation. Nothing like the monks.

I detest public display of foolish behavior.
Regarding "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" I thought it was a part of Lotus sutta, but I am not very familiar with Mahayana suttas. There is Peace pagoda near where I live. Very Sedate Japanese monks live there.
I have sat there while they chanted the entire Sutta, sounds of drums in the background. I found that
very peaceful. Does the sutta have anything to do with SGI/Nichiren?
When I asked the monks what "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" meant, the reply was that it
could not be explained, implying it was too profound for words. Do you know the meaning? Does it mean emptiness?
PS it is curious that middle aged women and the Japanese monks chant the same thing.
Best :candle:

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No_Mind
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by No_Mind » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:32 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:39 pm
No_Mind wrote
Pulsar wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:49 am
No_Mind wrote
"they are mostly middle aged women and quite pretty"
Are you talking of the Nicheren sect? I am so unfamiliar with this sect, can you elaborate?
Have you been to their meetings?
No, I am talking of SGI which claims to be Nichiren. I have not been to their meetings.

Oddly enough, there is a Nichiren Temple (probably only one in India) close to where I live. Japanese monks live there. They do not talk to outsiders. Do not preach.

The temple is located besides a 70 acre park and a large lake. When I used to run in early morning (30 years back) I saw the monks walk briskly around the lake with a very focused look, chanting something.

These middle aged women chant "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" at top of their voice and believe in manifestation. Nothing like the monks.

I detest public display of foolish behavior.
Regarding "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" I thought it was a part of Lotus sutta, but I am not very familiar with Mahayana suttas. There is Peace pagoda near where I live. Very Sedate Japanese monks live there.
I have sat there while they chanted the entire Sutta, sounds of drums in the background. I found that
very peaceful. Does the sutta have anything to do with SGI/Nichiren?
When I asked the monks what "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" meant, the reply was that it
could not be explained, implying it was too profound for words. Do you know the meaning? Does it mean emptiness?
PS it is curious that middle aged women and the Japanese monks chant the same thing.
Best :candle:
English translation is said to be "Glory to the Sutra of the Lotus of the Supreme Law"

The point is when you chant with single minded focus any mantra your mind becomes peaceful.

Whenever I wake up in middle of the night and feel anxiety I silently chant "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" over and over again.

By the 10th iteration I would be in deep sleep. It depends how you take it .. some would say that I have taught my brain to fall asleep when those words are uttered .. a believer would say Jesus heals me.

In India (dare not say in Hinduism!!) we say "when you look at a stone image - if you believe then it is God, if you don't then it is stone .."

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus

Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by Pulsar » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:48 pm

No_Mind wrote
"English translation is said to be "Glory to the Sutra of the Lotus of the Supreme Law"
Thank you, so I guess the supreme law here is
emptiness
as Mahayana stresses, as the not so Mahayanist Nagarjuna stressed too, due to his perfect understanding of Paticcasamuppada.
Not that the Buddha did not stress this too, as in the suttas of Lesser Void and Greater void MN 121 and
MN 122 and the sutta addressing Kaccayana, and also most tellingly in the Salayatansamyutta.
Thank you again for bringing me emptiness.
Happy Sunday! :candle:
Last edited by Pulsar on Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:15 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:04 am

These middle aged women chant "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" at top of their voice and believe in manifestation. Nothing like the monks.

I detest public display of foolish behavior.
Someone I knew in the 1980s worked with a woman who was a member of Nichiren Shoshu, and told a great story about her.
They worked with mentally ill people in London, and he regarded her as a harmless middle-aged eccentric who did this odd chanting in her tea breaks.

One day they were driving a minibus full of mentally ill clients through South London when they got a flat tyre. Not a big problem, as my friend is practically-minded; he got the minibus out of the traffic flow and looked for the spare and the jack. He found the spare, but someone had forgotten to put the jack in. This was getting a bit more serious. The clients were getting restless, it was a very hot day, and the traffic was very busy. He was working out a plan, when his colleague just sat down on the pavement and started chanting.

Silently cursing her for being a useless hippie, he set off looking for a public phone so he could call a garage, and their workplace. Maybe the police if he felt the situation required it.

Before he got far, a workman's van pulled up at the minibus. Without being asked, a complete stranger jumped out and asked the clients to get off the minibus while he jacked it up. Together, they changed the wheel and the stranger drove off without waiting to be thanked. All returned safely.

All a coincidence, probably, but a rare event for that busy part of London. My friend wasn't as scathing afterwards, though.

binocular
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by binocular » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:32 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:04 am
binocular wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:04 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 am
I think if someone is with SGI they should be told they are not Buddhists.
And if they put you on the spot and demand you to declare your attainment?
Are you of the opinion that I cannot tutor basic Buddhism 101 to someone should they wish to learn it?
As long as they have access to what you said here on the forums: no, I don't think you can be a good teacher of Buddhism, sorry. Too much doubt and baggage.
Point is do those women have the bandwidth to learn? How many people have you met in life who had the bandwidth?
Point is: Do you have the manliness or the Buddhism to handle their prettiness? :tongue:
Your track record says No. :tongue:

You did not choose the Dhamma, it chose you.
Interesting metareligious topic. I challenge you to back it up, in a new thread.

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No_Mind
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by No_Mind » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:43 pm

binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:32 pm
As long as they have access to what you said here on the forums: no, I don't think you can be a good teacher of Buddhism, sorry. Too much doubt and baggage.
I have doubt here. Not IRL.

And doubt is not a hindrance to preaching.

My doubt has been restricted between Buddhism and Hinduism .. not traveled outside .. I believe in Kamma, Dhamma, multiple lives, rebirth

I switch back and forth between Buddhism and Upanishadic Hinduism. I do not find much daylight between the two. I will not argue about that but I do not think there is a lot of difference unless one is at the very end .. maybe last 15% (but of course the climb is on a logarithmic scale)

More over I have been quite peaceful since I posited that Not Self means there is a soul but that the soul dies at Nibbana. That satisfies all questions (candle to candle flame as well as impermanence as well as Buddha's silence)

Do we have a soul till Nibbana

No one has been able to quote any sutta that opposes this simple explanation.
binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:32 pm
Point is: Do you have the manliness or the Buddhism to handle their prettiness?
Your track record says No.
What has that got to do with anything? I am not lecherous if that is what you imply!

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus

binocular
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by binocular » Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:57 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:43 pm
binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:32 pm
As long as they have access to what you said here on the forums: no, I don't think you can be a good teacher of Buddhism, sorry. Too much doubt and baggage.
I have doubt here. Not IRL.
And doubt is not a hindrance to preaching.
If the people you'd preach to would know about your doubts you post about here, they would probably feel discouraged from listening to you, they wouldn't see you as a credible Buddhist teacher nor believe or take seriously what you have to say.
binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:32 pm
Point is: Do you have the manliness or the Buddhism to handle their prettiness?
Your track record says No.
What has that got to do with anything?
That while attempting to preach Buddhism, you might get carried away in some strange direction, like you did not so long ago.
:smile: :smile: :smile:

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No_Mind
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo Buddhism

Post by No_Mind » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:58 pm

@ binocular

Can't quote. Writing from phone.

1. No one in real world knows my online identity and vice versa.
Also, I find the absolute faith that some here profess to have to be little unsettling. A teacher who has some doubt is probably little more credible. I think your need for a teacher who has absolute faith is largely a left over of your ISKCON days.

2. What has being in love with someone got to do with teaching Buddhism 101? You do not believe in romantic love. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
And say .. hypothetically .. I tutor Buddhism and do fall in love with a student (of course of proper age and single) .. why is that wrong?
Why is love considered "strange direction" by you (rhetorical question .. not actually seeking your response to it)?

Most times I find you quite unintelligible. Now more so.

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus

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