binocular wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:07 pm
Cortadew wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:48 am
Or try to force celibacy on themselves out of arrogance thinking (correctly) that sexual desire is for the lesser man. I've seen that a lot on this forums.
Or get their ideas of celibacy from Jedi philosophy.
Where else would modern, secular, young-ish people get some initial ideas and inspiration for celibacy?
And then when they come to Buddhism, they might implicitly still hold on to those Jedi ideas.
Because of that, where do you think they are or could be going wrong?
Maybe they read Dhammapada verses 283-285 (which totally teaches that without celibacy of both body and mind you won't reach nibbana, and in verse 284 "So long as there is any sexual lust in your mind, your mind is not free, but is in bondage like a nursing calf to its mother."). Maybe they read 1st Corinthians 7 (that celibacy is ideal and marriage is a concession to weakness) or Revelation 14:4 (virgins who have not "defiled themselves with women" are more redeemed than other Christians and are the "firstfruits to God and the lamb"). And for that matter, honestly, sexual desire IS for the lesser man. It also just common sense that anyone who mediates around the time of puberty can figure out: you were happier before puberty, then came this monster, this demon of desire, that made you completely unhappy and feeling like you needed another person to complete yourself, but it was also all a trick of DNA....
Oh that's another place: TV SHOWS! I was watching an old space series recently (Andromeda, not Star Wars), and a main character Tyr was uspet that the ship's AI was in love with another robot, and they argued a bit about her being in love with the other robot, and he said "Love is merely a trick of the DNA compelling you to breed!" And she said "But we're AI; we have no DNA." And he said "Precisely!" The character who said this, by the way, was a Nietzschean, a genetically engineered "master race" who follow Nietzsche's teachings, and who view procreation as the most important thing in life, for whose males being a "husband and father" is the greatest achievement in life; and yet he says love is merely the DNA compelling you to breed. The Nietzscheans are also matriarchal rather than patriarchal, and their entire goal in life for the males is for a female Nietzschean to view them as superior to other males and "choose" them: yet he still makes a compelling argument for celibacy when he says love is merely a trick of the DNA.
Also, clearly the Star Wars franchise got its notion that Jedi monks should be celibate from Buddhism; not the other way around. It just gave us a clearer narrative of how sex leads to the dark side with it turning Anakin into Darth Vader. And without that narrative, one could just as easily point to how desire to keep having sex made Adam eat the apple even though he knew God said not to, but he ate it cuz his woman might cut off sex if he didn't obey her (and how traditionally in Christian doctrine per the doctrine of original sin, Adam's giving in to his sexual desire over God's command damned all his descendants to hell).
But with regard to Buddhism, celibacy is clearly a big component anyway. Monasticism. Hello. And there are verses (ignored, hated by sexular, I mean secular, Buddhists, but still there) clearly saying that the non-celibate path only leads to a temporary heaven, and only celibates can actually make it to Nibbana.
The opening of the Rhinocerous Sutta also presents an argument in favor of both celibacy and personal anti-natalism: "Having renounced violence against all beings, you surely would NOT seek a spouse nor children." The implied argument is clear: sexual relationships involve violence towards the participants, and towards children spawned thereby. After all, fathering a child without the said child's prior consent is a form of violence; existence rape; forcing them to exist in the world without asking them first if they want to come into the world or not. The younger generation is very hip to the importance of consent, so you can rest assured that the term "existence rape" was not coined by me.