Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
tamdrin
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by tamdrin » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 am

There was a Zen master from Taiwan who had a mission to make a pure land on earth. His name is Sheng Yang and he has many youtube videos. Unfortunately the world is far too degenerate, or rather, the minds of the beings in it, to come close to a pure land.


A pure land is based on everyone having lots of metta and karuna, it's true.

Caodemarte
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:57 pm
tamdrin wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:19 am

Devas are in Samsara. Bodhisattvas who have attained the bhumis (bodhisattva grounds) are liberated from samsara. They are trans-worldly.
That is the traditional Mahayana perspective, yes. But none of that has a basis in the early Buddhist texts (samsara is not a place, but a process as the Buddha described it). Sorry if that sounds sectarian, but you are on a Theravada forum :)
Depends on which traditional Mahayana perspective held by whom and when and how that view defines the many concepts involved, stating with real and moving smartly along to deva. There are many subtle, sophisticated, primitive, dull, sharp traditional views. As pointed out, this is a Theravada forum and perhaps not the best place to look.

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SDC
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by SDC » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:01 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 am
There was a Zen master from Taiwan who had a mission to make a pure land on earth. His name is Sheng Yang and he has many youtube videos. Unfortunately the world is far too degenerate, or rather, the minds of the beings in it, to come close to a pure land.


A pure land is based on everyone having lots of metta and karuna, it's true.
I am not versed in Pure Land at all. When you say "make a pure land on earth" what does that mean? What will it look like?

tamdrin
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by tamdrin » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:37 am

SDC wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:01 pm
tamdrin wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 am
There was a Zen master from Taiwan who had a mission to make a pure land on earth. His name is Sheng Yang and he has many youtube videos. Unfortunately the world is far too degenerate, or rather, the minds of the beings in it, to come close to a pure land.


A pure land is based on everyone having lots of metta and karuna, it's true.
I am not versed in Pure Land at all. When you say "make a pure land on earth" what does that mean? What will it look like?

I don't know either.. hahah..maybe look into the writings of that master.. hard to fathom this earth could be a pure land.

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SDC
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by SDC » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:19 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:37 am
I don't know either.. hahah..maybe look into the writings of that master.. hard to fathom this earth could be a pure land.
Well, I was just trying to understand the whole idea of what pure land is...is it like heaven? You said we should rejoice, so I thought you would share what you think it means.

tamdrin
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by tamdrin » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:10 am

SDC wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:19 pm
tamdrin wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:37 am
I don't know either.. hahah..maybe look into the writings of that master.. hard to fathom this earth could be a pure land.
Well, I was just trying to understand the whole idea of what pure land is...is it like heaven? You said we should rejoice, so I thought you would share what you think it means.

Oh, Pure land is a place that, according to Mahayana is better than heaven. There is no suffering there and one can cultivate one's spiritual practice. When one has prepared one can come back to the world and help others.


Search Sukhavati, or Amitabha pure land.

Dan74
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Dan74 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:51 am

This is Zen Master Xu Yun explaining it to John Blofeld (as recorded by Blofeld):
But the method [Zen] is very hard – hard even for those who practise it night and day for years on end. How many people are prepared or even able to do that? The monastery also has to serve the needs of simple, illiterate people. How many of them would understand if we taught only the highest method? I speak of the farmers on our own land here and of the simple pilgrims who come for the great annual festivals. To them we offer that other way – repetition of the sacred name – which is yet the same way adapted for simple minds. They believe that by such repetition they will gain the Western Paradise and there receive divine teaching from Amida Buddha himself – teaching which will lead them directly to Nirvana.”
At once reluctantly and somewhat daringly I answered: “I see. But isn’t that a kind of – well, a sort of – of – er – deception? Good, no doubt, but…”
I broke off, not so much in confusion as because the Venerable Hsü Yün was roaring with laughter.
“Deception? Deception? Ha, ha, ha, ha-ha! Not at all. Not a bit. No, of course not.”
“Then Your Reverence, if you too believe in the Western Heaven and so on, why do you trouble to teach the much harder road to Zen?”
“I do not understand the distinction you are making. They are identical.”
“But…”
“Listen, Mr P’u. Zen manifests self-strength; Amidism manifests other-strength. You rely on your own efforts, or you rely on the saving power of Amida. Is that right?”
“Yes. But they are – I mean, they seem – entirely different from each other.”
I became aware that some of the other monks were beginning to look at me coldly, as though I were showing unpardonable rudeness in pertinaciously arguing with this renowned scholar and saint; but the Master, who was quite unperturbed, seemed to be enjoying himself.
“Why insist so much on this difference?” he asked. “You know that in reality there is nought but the One Mind. You may choose to regard it as in you or out of you, but “in” and “out” have no ultimate significance whatever – just as you, Mr P’u, and I and Amida Buddha have no real separateness. In ordinary life, self is self and other is other; in reality they are the same. Take Bodhidharma who sat for nine years in front of a blank wall. What did he contemplate? What did he see? Nothing but his Original Self, the true Self beyond duality. Thus he saw Reality face to face. He was thereby freed from the Wheel and entered Nirvana, never to be reborn – unless voluntarily as a Bodhisattva.”
“Yet, Reverence, I do not think that Bodhidharma spoke of Amida. Or am I wrong?”
“True, true. He did not. But when Farmer Wang comes to me for teaching, am I to speak to him of his Original Self or of Reality and so on? What do such terms mean to him? Morning and evening, he repeats the sacred name, concentrating on it until he grows oblivious of all else. In time, after a month, a year, a decade, a lifetime or several lifetimes, he achieves such a state of perfect concentration that duality is transcended and he, too, comes face to face with Reality. He calls the power by which he hopes to achieve this Amida; you call it Zen; I may call it Original Mind. What is the difference? The power he thought was outside himself was inside all the time.”
_/|\_

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Aloka
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Aloka » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:37 pm

.

"Don’t be an arahant, don’t be a bodhisattva, don’t be anything at all—if you are anything at all you will suffer.”


~Ajahn Chah


:anjali:

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Aloka
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Aloka » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:56 pm

.

The above Ajahn Chah quote was taken from an article "The View from the Centre" by Ajahn Amaro:

https://www.amaravati.org/the-view-from-the-centre/


.

tamdrin
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by tamdrin » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 am

Aloka wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:37 pm
.

"Don’t be an arahant, don’t be a bodhisattva, don’t be anything at all—if you are anything at all you will suffer.”


~Ajahn Chah


:anjali:

Well you have to decide which path you are going to follow.... Kind of a silly quote really.

tamdrin
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by tamdrin » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:13 am

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:51 am
This is Zen Master Xu Yun explaining it to John Blofeld (as recorded by Blofeld):
But the method [Zen] is very hard – hard even for those who practise it night and day for years on end. How many people are prepared or even able to do that? The monastery also has to serve the needs of simple, illiterate people. How many of them would understand if we taught only the highest method? I speak of the farmers on our own land here and of the simple pilgrims who come for the great annual festivals. To them we offer that other way – repetition of the sacred name – which is yet the same way adapted for simple minds. They believe that by such repetition they will gain the Western Paradise and there receive divine teaching from Amida Buddha himself – teaching which will lead them directly to Nirvana.”
At once reluctantly and somewhat daringly I answered: “I see. But isn’t that a kind of – well, a sort of – of – er – deception? Good, no doubt, but…”
I broke off, not so much in confusion as because the Venerable Hsü Yün was roaring with laughter.
“Deception? Deception? Ha, ha, ha, ha-ha! Not at all. Not a bit. No, of course not.”
“Then Your Reverence, if you too believe in the Western Heaven and so on, why do you trouble to teach the much harder road to Zen?”
“I do not understand the distinction you are making. They are identical.”
“But…”
“Listen, Mr P’u. Zen manifests self-strength; Amidism manifests other-strength. You rely on your own efforts, or you rely on the saving power of Amida. Is that right?”
“Yes. But they are – I mean, they seem – entirely different from each other.”
I became aware that some of the other monks were beginning to look at me coldly, as though I were showing unpardonable rudeness in pertinaciously arguing with this renowned scholar and saint; but the Master, who was quite unperturbed, seemed to be enjoying himself.
“Why insist so much on this difference?” he asked. “You know that in reality there is nought but the One Mind. You may choose to regard it as in you or out of you, but “in” and “out” have no ultimate significance whatever – just as you, Mr P’u, and I and Amida Buddha have no real separateness. In ordinary life, self is self and other is other; in reality they are the same. Take Bodhidharma who sat for nine years in front of a blank wall. What did he contemplate? What did he see? Nothing but his Original Self, the true Self beyond duality. Thus he saw Reality face to face. He was thereby freed from the Wheel and entered Nirvana, never to be reborn – unless voluntarily as a Bodhisattva.”
“Yet, Reverence, I do not think that Bodhidharma spoke of Amida. Or am I wrong?”
“True, true. He did not. But when Farmer Wang comes to me for teaching, am I to speak to him of his Original Self or of Reality and so on? What do such terms mean to him? Morning and evening, he repeats the sacred name, concentrating on it until he grows oblivious of all else. In time, after a month, a year, a decade, a lifetime or several lifetimes, he achieves such a state of perfect concentration that duality is transcended and he, too, comes face to face with Reality. He calls the power by which he hopes to achieve this Amida; you call it Zen; I may call it Original Mind. What is the difference? The power he thought was outside himself was inside all the time.”
Some Zen people prefer to think of the pure land as the pure mind. If your mind is pure the land is pure. This is true, but there is also a relative truth too.

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Aloka
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Aloka » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:13 am

tamdrin wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 am
... Kind of a silly quote really.
Not if you read the quote in the context of the article I referenced.

PS. Isn't "Tamdrin" the name of a wrathful Tibetan Buddhist/Bon deity ?

Image


.

sentinel
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by sentinel » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:55 am

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:51 am
This is Zen Master Xu Yun explaining it to John Blofeld (as recorded by Blofeld):
But the method [Zen] is very hard – hard even for those who practise it night and day for years on end. How many people are prepared or even able to do that? The monastery also has to serve the needs of simple, illiterate people. How many of them would understand if we taught only the highest method? I speak of the farmers on our own land here and of the simple pilgrims who come for the great annual festivals. To them we offer that other way – repetition of the sacred name – which is yet the same way adapted for simple minds. They believe that by such repetition they will gain the Western Paradise and there receive divine teaching from Amida Buddha himself – teaching which will lead them directly to Nirvana.”
At once reluctantly and somewhat daringly I answered: “I see. But isn’t that a kind of – well, a sort of – of – er – deception? Good, no doubt, but…”
I broke off, not so much in confusion as because the Venerable Hsü Yün was roaring with laughter.
“Deception? Deception? Ha, ha, ha, ha-ha! Not at all. Not a bit. No, of course not.”
“Then Your Reverence, if you too believe in the Western Heaven and so on, why do you trouble to teach the much harder road to Zen?”
“I do not understand the distinction you are making. They are identical.”
“But…”
“Listen, Mr P’u. Zen manifests self-strength; Amidism manifests other-strength. You rely on your own efforts, or you rely on the saving power of Amida. Is that right?”
“Yes. But they are – I mean, they seem – entirely different from each other.”
I became aware that some of the other monks were beginning to look at me coldly, as though I were showing unpardonable rudeness in pertinaciously arguing with this renowned scholar and saint; but the Master, who was quite unperturbed, seemed to be enjoying himself.
“Why insist so much on this difference?” he asked. “You know that in reality there is nought but the One Mind. You may choose to regard it as in you or out of you, but “in” and “out” have no ultimate significance whatever – just as you, Mr P’u, and I and Amida Buddha have no real separateness. In ordinary life, self is self and other is other; in reality they are the same. Take Bodhidharma who sat for nine years in front of a blank wall. What did he contemplate? What did he see? Nothing but his Original Self, the true Self beyond duality. Thus he saw Reality face to face. He was thereby freed from the Wheel and entered Nirvana, never to be reborn – unless voluntarily as a Bodhisattva.”
“Yet, Reverence, I do not think that Bodhidharma spoke of Amida. Or am I wrong?”
“True, true. He did not. But when Farmer Wang comes to me for teaching, am I to speak to him of his Original Self or of Reality and so on? What do such terms mean to him? Morning and evening, he repeats the sacred name, concentrating on it until he grows oblivious of all else. In time, after a month, a year, a decade, a lifetime or several lifetimes, he achieves such a state of perfect concentration that duality is transcended and he, too, comes face to face with Reality. He calls the power by which he hopes to achieve this Amida; you call it Zen; I may call it Original Mind. What is the difference? The power he thought was outside himself was inside all the time.”
:meditate:


A matter of perception and wisdom .
This is how I guide my parents and the aged and ills .
Last edited by sentinel on Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
No way is the way

sentinel
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by sentinel » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:55 am

Aloka wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:13 am
tamdrin wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 am
... Kind of a silly quote really.
Not if you read the quote in the context of the article I referenced.

PS. Isn't "Tamdrin" the name of a wrathful Tibetan Buddhist/Bon deity ?

Image


.
Not Bon . A manifestation of great compassion .

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Hayagriva
No way is the way

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Aloka
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Re: Tan Ajahn Anan says the Bodhisattvas of Mahayana are real!

Post by Aloka » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:29 am

sentinel wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:55 am
Not Bon .
It's definately a wrathful Bonpo deity, as well as Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu ( Hayagrıva). Have a look at this :

Rites of the Deity Tamdrin(Rta mgrin) in Contemporary Bön

https://www.academia.edu/2385456/Rites_ ... ing_Stones


Anyway, moving on..... :hello: have a good day.

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