Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DooDoot
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:00 am

Justsit wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:38 pm
Punk is the antithesis of hippiedom!
Both rebel but hippiedom seems closer to Buddhist monks since the hippies like the monks aspired to be close to nature. The impression is "Baby Boomer Buddhism" often wanted to build country/rural community & meditation centres close to nature, emulating the forest monks, including renunciating excess materialism.
Justsit wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:38 pm
Lots of tattoos and street language.
My impression is this is just "marketing". These "teacher$" ("spiritual busine$$people") are looking to attract follower$, it seem$. Therefore, "Millennial Buddhism" appears similar to Christian Protestantism, namely, "Urban Buddhism" of those who are looking for a Religious Figure to sanctify or justify their materialistic lifestyles.
bazzaman wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:12 am
I tried, but failed, to find this notice.... Could you perhaps provide a link. I find it strange that a site devoted to sutta study would take a political stand.
Below:
Extremist views are banned on this forum

What is an extremist view?

Generally it refers to views that blithely reject well-established facts. The views themselves may or may not be hateful, but they are always delusional. Such views seem like an innocuous theory, but they often aim at creating a nationalist, sectarian fundamentalism.

It is not possible to define these with precision, so I will decide on a case by case basis, with consultation if necessary.

We are concerned primarily with Buddhist extremist views, but other forms of anti-reality extremism are included, such as climate change denial.

Examples of hateful views include anti-semitic, homophobic, misogynist, racist and pro-nazi ideas.

Examples of non-hateful extremist views include:

The Buddha was born in Sri Lanka.
Anicca doesn’t mean impermanence.
The original Pali manuscripts at Aluvihara exist.
Pali fundamentalism (Chinese texts are all Mahayana, etc.).

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ex ... orum/13312
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SDC
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by SDC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:25 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:00 am
Both rebel but hippiedom seems closer to Buddhist monks since the hippies like the monks aspired to be close to nature.
Categorically, hippies aspire to give and take freely. Even if it means they are going to take without asking, even with respect to the personal space of others. I went to school and lived in a town 30 minutes from Woodstock. A locale where hippiedom is still alive and well. They have no respect for boundaries and will suck out your soul if given access (and eat all of your ramen noodles and steal your Back to the Future box set). They are the worst sort of bodily-harmless humans I've ever encountered. They often smell like patchouli and trouble. :D

Nothing like monks.

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DooDoot
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:30 am

SDC wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:25 am
Nothing like monks.
I did deliberately use the word "aspired" (which means they may not have fulfilled the aspiration). :) Video here:


catlady2112 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:48 pm
Not to add more complexity to my original question - but many of these articles/podcasts I've listened to that express anger about generational differences -- tend to come from young people who learned Buddhism in the Vipassana Movement, (Insight community), which, from my understanding is a community of Independent American teachers (versus a monastic, or Asian lineage based tradition). I could see how one might toss aside one generation of newly converted Buddhists, but it might be harder to do that if Buddhism was taught inside of it's cultural roots. Thoughts?
As I posted before, I think they are simply attempting to differentiate themselves in the "market place", such as these guys in the video or Noah Levine. While I am personally in no way being critical of what appears to be two gay guys in the video, I think clearly the video looks very gay to me and thus would attract those individuals who identify with the presentation in the video. I studied Marketing at university and it seems all about "target marketing". In the end, whether or not it is Dhamma, depends on its results. Noah Levine, for example, was rightly censured for his sexual misconduct. In other words, the question needs to be asked in respect to your OP: "which of the groups is actually holding back the future of Buddhism"? :shrug:

There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Pondera
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:09 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:30 am
SDC wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:25 am
Nothing like monks.
I did deliberately use the word "aspired" (which means they may not have fulfilled the aspiration). :) Video here:


catlady2112 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:48 pm
Not to add more complexity to my original question - but many of these articles/podcasts I've listened to that express anger about generational differences -- tend to come from young people who learned Buddhism in the Vipassana Movement, (Insight community), which, from my understanding is a community of Independent American teachers (versus a monastic, or Asian lineage based tradition). I could see how one might toss aside one generation of newly converted Buddhists, but it might be harder to do that if Buddhism was taught inside of it's cultural roots. Thoughts?
As I posted before, I think they are simply attempting to differentiate themselves in the "market place", such as these guys in the video or Noah Levine. While I am personally in no way being critical of what appears to be two gay guys in the video, I think clearly the video looks very gay to me and thus would attract those individuals who identify with the presentation in the video. I studied Marketing at university and it seems all about "target marketing". In the end, whether or not it is Dhamma, depends on its results. Noah Levine, for example, was rightly censured for his sexual misconduct. In other words, the question needs to be asked in respect to your OP: "which of the groups is actually holding back the future of Buddhism"? :shrug:

You called me out for antisemitism; I’m calling you out for homophobia.

Just kidding :bow:
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:00 am

This thread is one of the best I've seen here for ages. Good humour, intelligent comment, and contributions by Dinsdale and SDC which made me laugh out loud. DooDoot's comment had the greatest impact, though:

On Sutta Central there is actually a thing called "anti-reality extremism". Never mind Boomers, Hippies, or Punks. The robots are winning, aren't they?

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Mkoll
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Mkoll » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:49 am

catlady2112 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:43 am
I've been listening to Buddhist interviews and reading articles lately that has led me to believe there is a wave of millennial anger towards Baby Boomers, blaming them for holding back the future of Buddhism. At first I thought it was a joke -- but it appears not to be. Someone please enlighten me.
This sounds like an offshoot of a general meme of anger or "you had it better/easier" toward baby boomers from some in younger generations. This intergenerational resentment can go both ways. A simple Google search of "boomers millenials" should provide plenty of articles to learn more.
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binocular
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by binocular » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:30 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:09 pm
I think the OP is talking about the future of Buddhism in the US. The article Mike found and DooDoot quoted extensively hardly mentions anything outside the US.
I don't like to be rude about the many Americans (here and elsewhere) who do recognise the reality of the world beyond the US borders, but there are even more Americans for whom the future of [whatever] means exactly the same as the future of [whatever] in the US. They forget the rest of the world and they don't even notice they are doing it! .
The same applies to the use of the term "Baby Boomer". It's useful in American life, so Americans use it to define that age-group world-wide, in spite of the fact that the conditions which made that cohort so different from their parents didn't exist in the same way outside the West.
I think that outside of the US, there is a measure of hostility against the Americanization of Buddhism; or, more generally, a measure of hostility against Americanization per se.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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SDC
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by SDC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:26 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:00 am
Good humour, intelligent comment, and contributions by Dinsdale and SDC which made me laugh out loud.
I'm so glad that the disappearance of both my ramen noodles and Back to the Future box set is so amusing to you. :lol:

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Antaradhana
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Antaradhana » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:43 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:30 am
the Americanization of Buddhism
Uncover what that means.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

sunnat
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by sunnat » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:49 pm

True, there is a lot to overcome. When a society is invaded by a foreign element and that element becomes prominent, in a society like the USA, which prides itself on freedom of expression, it goes through a process of subsumption that ensures it will obey fundamental strictures on expression like being of no threat to the ruling paradigm.

When Edward Bernays set about reshaping the mind he created the new isolated unit, the individual, with its own needs no longer defined by traditional common interest groupings. This allows the use of divide et impera in a subtle way. Culltural rationalism. Essentially a freedom to be powerless in the interest of a greater power.

Not that that in any way will negate the fundamental potency of the Dhamma. The real struggle is not between the different groupings talking about buddhism but between the Dhamma and Capital as it tries to make the Dhamma palatable.

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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Zom » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:13 pm

Sotapanna Visakha was a baby boomer 8-)

Justsit
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Justsit » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:51 pm

sunnat wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:49 pm
... The real struggle is not between the different groupings talking about buddhism but between the Dhamma and Capital as it tries to make the Dhamma palatable.
Not sure I'm following your reasoning here. Do you think that Capital has any interest in American Buddhism, other than making a few bucks from selling trinkets? Why would Capital care about making Dhamma palatable when Buddhism is only relevant to roughly 1% of the population?

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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by DNS » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:47 pm

Zom wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:13 pm
Sotapanna Visakha was a baby boomer 8-)
That's right, she had 20 children. :shock:

Does that make her a baby boomer? Or was it her children who were baby boomers? :tongue:

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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:27 am

Examples of hateful views include anti-semitic, homophobic, misogynist, racist and pro-nazi ideas.
Does this includes Buddhism itself ? Because Buddhism(according to themselves) appear to be homophobic(in some tradition) and misogynistic(of the monastic hierarchy) . They actually were thinking of experimenting of an alternative sangha ie genderless sangha !
Isn't genderless is an extreme which is against gender ?

:rolleye:
:buddha1:

binocular
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by binocular » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:39 am

Antaradhana wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:43 pm
binocular wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:30 am
the Americanization of Buddhism
Uncover what that means.
It's when Buddhism is taken up by Americans and understood and practiced in the specific context of American culture; but then presented as just Buddhism or true Buddhism, as if no filtering through the specific American culture had taken place.


Google "Americanization of Buddhism" to find some articles and essays on the topic.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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