Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Justsit
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Justsit » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:58 pm

Pondera wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:23 am
It consisted or consists of those people who came of age in the recession of 2008 - generally outlining the basic shyt deal we got when it was our time to enter the workforce and/or buy a house; settle down; raise a family - ie. right around the time the Sachs brothers were getting a huge bailout from the US govn’t for destroying the economy with their “derivative” trade methods. Ie. right around the time that Baby Boomers were cashing in and leaving the future generation high and dry.

You can still see it to this very day. I can barely afford rent. My baby boomer neighbour bought his house for $100,000 in the sixties or seventies and is making a cool million off the property now - selling it to some off shore interest who’s a god damn money launderer.

Meanwhile, I’m scraping by a living - driving my 2003 Hyundai Elantra while Baby Boomer Joe Shmo is suddenly concerned about the environment and decides to by a Tesla - because (what the Hell?) - he’s going through a mid life crises anyway.

Tasting the bitterness over here yet, OP?

That’s the gist of a millennials feelings towards the baby boomer generation.
If it makes you feel any better, Pondera, there were many - many- middle class boomer-gen Americans who lost their entire life savings in 2008 and have not recovered. We listened like good little proles to the Wall Street bait and switch and put our money there thinking it was well-regulated. HA! There are plenty of people in that age group who are right now literally one illness away from being on the street. Don't let the media hype fool you, there's a whole lotta bitterness in Boomer World, too.

sunnat
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by sunnat » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:11 pm

The hippie scene was over by the early seventies. Whatever the hippies reasons for being, the punk scene was a reaction to the economic downturn of the midlate seventies. Mainly it was that or the reactionary skinheads. Punk was an obvious choice compared to the fascist inspired skins. (About then the rastas were coming too) . Punk was never really anti hippie. More like more relevant to lifestyle options. The roots of the punks were largely the greasers that came from the teddy boys of the fifties. Their antithesis were the mods or modernists out of which came the skinheads.

catlady2112
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by catlady2112 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:48 pm

Not to add more complexity to my original question - but many of these articles/podcasts I've listened to that express anger about generational differences -- tend to come from young people who learned Buddhism in the Vipassana Movement, (Insight community), which, from my understanding is a community of Independent American teachers (versus a monastic, or Asian lineage based tradition). I could see how one might toss aside one generation of newly converted Buddhists, but it might be harder to do that if Buddhism was taught inside of it's cultural roots. Thoughts?

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DNS
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by DNS » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:34 pm

There are about 7 generations alive at any one moment (give or take a couple), making it about one billion people per generation-period. One could hardly generalize that many people as having the same mindset. There are leftists, conservatives, alt-rights, socialists, anarchists, centrists in all generations. There are rich, poor, middle class, working class, unemployed in all generations. There are traditionalists, reformists, non-sectarians in all generations.

I'd like to hear what are the assumed traits of these generations and which generation is complaining about who?

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Bundokji
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:01 pm

DNS wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:34 pm
There are about 7 generations alive at any one moment (give or take a couple), making it about one billion people per generation-period. One could hardly generalize that many people as having the same mindset. There are leftists, conservatives, alt-rights, socialists, anarchists, centrists in all generations. There are rich, poor, middle class, working class, unemployed in all generations. There are traditionalists, reformists, non-sectarians in all generations.

I'd like to hear what are the assumed traits of these generations and which generation is complaining about who?
I would add that there might be a cultural bias in the way things are presented on this thread. Westerns represent a minority when it comes to world population.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

catlady2112
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by catlady2112 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:11 pm

DNS wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:34 pm
There are about 7 generations alive at any one moment (give or take a couple), making it about one billion people per generation-period. One could hardly generalize that many people as having the same mindset. There are leftists, conservatives, alt-rights, socialists, anarchists, centrists in all generations. There are rich, poor, middle class, working class, unemployed in all generations. There are traditionalists, reformists, non-sectarians in all generations.

I'd like to hear what are the assumed traits of these generations and which generation is complaining about who?
Good point. The Dalai Lama says we are all the same: We don't want suffering and want happiness. That seems to cross all of our imaginary boundaries that divide us. I overhead someone say recently "If I had someone to blame, I'd feel a lot better." Recently, and elder Sri Lankan a monk I took a class with said this great thing that helped me with anger:

Anger is caused by fear.
Fear is caused by the fear of loss.
The fear of loss is caused by the assumption that we own that thing in the first place.
Last edited by mikenz66 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Formatting corrected. mikenz66

Justsit
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Justsit » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:01 pm
I would add that there might be a cultural bias in the way things are presented on this thread. Westerns represent a minority when it comes to world population.
Since I've only ever resided in the US, I'm curious to know if the term "Baby Boomer" is common usage in non-Western countries.
I can't say I recall ever seeing it used, but then again I wasn't looking for it.

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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:48 pm

I reckon it's just sour grapes. It's not my fault I got free university education, a cheap house, free love, drugs, and the opportunity to explore a wide variety of political and religious philosophies. :tongue:

It were a difficult job, but somebody had to do it. Those long nights on the Pennine Way preparing mushroom soup...a sky full of stars.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Bundokji
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:47 pm

Justsit wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:29 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:01 pm
I would add that there might be a cultural bias in the way things are presented on this thread. Westerns represent a minority when it comes to world population.
Since I've only ever resided in the US, I'm curious to know if the term "Baby Boomer" is common usage in non-Western countries.
I can't say I recall ever seeing it used, but then again I wasn't looking for it.
What is relevant to me is not if the term "Baby Boomer" is commonly used in non-western countries or not, but the context of the OP implies as if the future of Buddhism is held hostage to debates, accusations and hostilities between different generations of western Buddhists (or American Buddhists to be more specific) who represent a very small minority of the Buddhist population.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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mikenz66
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:56 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:47 pm
... the OP implies as if the future of Buddhism is held hostage to debates, accusations and hostilities between different generations of western Buddhists (or American Buddhists to be more specific) who represent a very small minority of the Buddhist population.
Yes, if the future of Buddhism depended on a few Western converts agreeing with each other, it would really be in trouble.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:09 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:47 pm
Justsit wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:29 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:01 pm
I would add that there might be a cultural bias in the way things are presented on this thread. Westerns represent a minority when it comes to world population.
Since I've only ever resided in the US, I'm curious to know if the term "Baby Boomer" is common usage in non-Western countries.
I can't say I recall ever seeing it used, but then again I wasn't looking for it.
What is relevant to me is not if the term "Baby Boomer" is commonly used in non-western countries or not, but the context of the OP implies as if the future of Buddhism is held hostage to debates, accusations and hostilities between different generations of western Buddhists (or American Buddhists to be more specific) who represent a very small minority of the Buddhist population.
I think the OP is talking about the future of Buddhism in the US. The article Mike found and DooDoot quoted extensively hardly mentions anything outside the US.
I don't like to be rude about the many Americans (here and elsewhere) who do recognise the reality of the world beyond the US borders, but there are even more Americans for whom the future of [whatever] means exactly the same as the future of [whatever] in the US. They forget the rest of the world and they don't even notice they are doing it! .
The same applies to the use of the term "Baby Boomer". It's useful in American life, so Americans use it to define that age-group world-wide, in spite of the fact that the conditions which made that cohort so different from their parents didn't exist in the same way outside the West.

:namaste:
Kim

Justsit
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Justsit » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:35 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:09 pm
...
I think the OP is talking about the future of Buddhism in the US. The article Mike found and DooDoot quoted extensively hardly mentions anything outside the US.
I don't like to be rude about the many Americans (here and elsewhere) who do recognise the reality of the world beyond the US borders, but there are even more Americans for whom the future of [whatever] means exactly the same as the future of [whatever] in the US. They forget the rest of the world and they don't even notice they are doing it! .
The same applies to the use of the term "Baby Boomer". It's useful in American life, so Americans use it to define that age-group world-wide, in spite of the fact that the conditions which made that cohort so different from their parents didn't exist in the same way outside the West.

:namaste:
Kim
Yes, thanks Kim, that's what I was referencing. I read online news websites from around the world, but don't recall ever seeing any reference to "Baby Boomers." So I'm hearing that the answer is basically, no, the term is not in common usage around the world. These things are helpful to know in conversation with posters from other countries.

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Pondera
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:10 am

Justsit wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:58 pm
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:23 am
It consisted or consists of those people who came of age in the recession of 2008 - generally outlining the basic shyt deal we got when it was our time to enter the workforce and/or buy a house; settle down; raise a family - ie. right around the time the Sachs brothers were getting a huge bailout from the US govn’t for destroying the economy with their “derivative” trade methods. Ie. right around the time that Baby Boomers were cashing in and leaving the future generation high and dry.

You can still see it to this very day. I can barely afford rent. My baby boomer neighbour bought his house for $100,000 in the sixties or seventies and is making a cool million off the property now - selling it to some off shore interest who’s a god damn money launderer.

Meanwhile, I’m scraping by a living - driving my 2003 Hyundai Elantra while Baby Boomer Joe Shmo is suddenly concerned about the environment and decides to by a Tesla - because (what the Hell?) - he’s going through a mid life crises anyway.

Tasting the bitterness over here yet, OP?

That’s the gist of a millennials feelings towards the baby boomer generation.
If it makes you feel any better, Pondera, there were many - many- middle class boomer-gen Americans who lost their entire life savings in 2008 and have not recovered. We listened like good little proles to the Wall Street bait and switch and put our money there thinking it was well-regulated. HA! There are plenty of people in that age group who are right now literally one illness away from being on the street. Don't let the media hype fool you, there's a whole lotta bitterness in Boomer World, too.
Well, it doesn’t make me feel better. That sucks even more. You spend your whole life building a career; making a home; children; college funds; and then - “investments”.

Again. There’s no racial finger pointing here. It’s the “one percent” who have been pulling the strings for a long time now.

Thanks for the perspective, justsit.
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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Pondera
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:18 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:48 pm
I reckon it's just sour grapes. It's not my fault I got free university education, a cheap house, free love, drugs, and the opportunity to explore a wide variety of political and religious philosophies. :tongue:

It were a difficult job, but somebody had to do it. Those long nights on the Pennine Way preparing mushroom soup...a sky full of stars.
$30,000 in Uni debt; houses which cost half a million dollars; no money or room to start a family; but - still free loving, with drugs, and alcohol (although millennials are drowning their sorrows; drinking to forget; and quickly becoming pathological alcoholics).

No time to make “mushroom” soup. But no sour grapes here. Why would I wish down on you? I don’t. I’m just saying my life sucks and it’s all your fault :tongue:
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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bazzaman
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Re: Why so much hostility towards Baby Boomer Buddhists?

Post by bazzaman » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:12 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:29 am

Sutta Central just announced new Anti-BDS legislation banning Antisemitism on their website. Fortunate you are not posting the above, there, to avoid the Gulag.
I tried, but failed, to find this notice on https://suttacentral.net/. Could you perhaps provide a link. I find it strange that a site devoted to sutta study would take a political stand.
Atāṇo loko anabhissaro...

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