One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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auto
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One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by auto » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:15 pm

https://suttacentral.net/dn23/en/sujato
2.4. The Simile of the Gods of the Thirty-Three

“Well then, chieftain, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.

A hundred human years are equivalent to one day and night for the gods of the Thirty-Three. Thirty such days make a month, and twelve months make a year. The gods of the Thirty Three have a lifespan of a thousand such years. Now, as to your friends who are reborn in the company of the gods of the Thirty-Three after doing good things.
If they think, ‘First I’ll amuse myself for two or three days, supplied and provided with the five kinds of heavenly sensual stimulation. Then I’ll go back to Pāyāsi and tell him that there is an afterlife.’

Would they come back to tell you that there is an afterlife?”
“No, Master Kassapa. For I would be long dead by then. But Master Kassapa, who has told you that the gods of the Thirty-Three exist, or that they have such a long life span? I don’t believe you.”
now i wonder if with the particle cannons when the particles will at highspeed collide and make an impact then it will leave imprints to these realms and can be read?

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cappuccino
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by cappuccino » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:52 pm

I find there is evidence, I've run across ghosts & angels

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Antaradhana
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Antaradhana » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:58 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:52 pm
I find there is evidence, I've run across ghosts & angels
Can you tell a detailed story?
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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cappuccino
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by cappuccino » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:25 pm

I was young with other children in a field

Near a ruined house, a strange girl appeared

She spoke for a minute, then somehow vanished

No one saw her until 3 decades later

For she was a ghost, appearing to a friend's mother (Susan)

The ghost kept appearing in her house

Susan moved

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Grigoris
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 pm

auto wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:15 pm
https://suttacentral.net/dn23/en/sujato
2.4. The Simile of the Gods of the Thirty-Three

“Well then, chieftain, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.

A hundred human years are equivalent to one day and night for the gods of the Thirty-Three. Thirty such days make a month, and twelve months make a year. The gods of the Thirty Three have a lifespan of a thousand such years. Now, as to your friends who are reborn in the company of the gods of the Thirty-Three after doing good things.
If they think, ‘First I’ll amuse myself for two or three days, supplied and provided with the five kinds of heavenly sensual stimulation. Then I’ll go back to Pāyāsi and tell him that there is an afterlife.’

Would they come back to tell you that there is an afterlife?”
“No, Master Kassapa. For I would be long dead by then. But Master Kassapa, who has told you that the gods of the Thirty-Three exist, or that they have such a long life span? I don’t believe you.”
Ummmm... The Sutta concludes with the chieftan admitting there is an afterlife:
6. The God Pāyāsi
Now at that time Venerable Gavampati would often go to that empty acacia palace for the day’s meditation. Then the god Pāyāsi went up to him, bowed, and stood to one side. Gavampati said to him, “Who are you, reverend?”

“Sir, I am the chieftain Pāyāsi.”

“Didn’t you have the view that there’s no afterlife, no beings are reborn spontaneously, and there’s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds?”

“It’s true, sir, I did have such a view. But Venerable Kassapa the Prince dissuaded me from that harmful misconception.”

“But the student named Uttara who organized that offering for you—where has he been reborn?”

“Sir, Uttara gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the Thirty-Three. But I gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with my own hands, giving the dregs. When my body broke up, after death, I was reborn in company with the gods of the Four Great Kings, in an empty palace of acacia.

So, sir, when you’ve returned to the human realm, please announce this: ‘Give gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with your own hands, not giving the dregs. The chieftain Pāyāsi gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with his own hands, giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the Four Great Kings, in an empty palace of acacia. But the brahmin student Uttara who organized the offering gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the Thirty-Three.’”

So when Venerable Gavampati returned to the human realm he made that announcement.


now i wonder if with the particle cannons when the particles will at highspeed collide and make an impact then it will leave imprints to these realms and can be read?
What are you talking about??? :shrug:
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

auto
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by auto » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:18 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 pm
Ummmm... The Sutta concludes with the chieftan admitting there is an afterlife:
i was telling that there is no evidence on afterlife, you can't see afterlife with your eyes. I took literal example, heavenly beings when they do something then within that spawn many years have passed by on human realm. How you can see heavenly beings?
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 pm
What are you talking about???
there maybe is a way to do it as some theories suggest in the internet.
..

i look now what words are translated as afterlife.

paro loko

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/p/paro
paroPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Paro,(adv.) [cp.Vedic paras; to para] beyond,further,above,more than,upwards of;
lokoPali-Dictionary Vipassana Research Institute
loko:The universe; a world; the world; the inhabitants of a world or region; mankind; a being,a creature
by this i can guess the context of the word afterlife. The afterlife is meant as when the body is broken you won't magically go somewhere or cease to exist, but just end up without physical body.

but that is also not the full case since there are fruits of good and bad actions. And i have heard from psychic people that it is possible to read out from person what he/she have done, or even solve cases there are imprints left behind what can be traced back to its owner etc.

you wouldn't never know there are judges after death who send you to certain places to serve your kamma.
Last edited by auto on Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auto
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by auto » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:35 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:52 pm
I find there is evidence, I've run across ghosts & angels
lots of people believe in soul and afterlife but not in developing mind and body, subtle energy system and activate their jiva to have livelihood.

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Grigoris
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:45 pm

auto wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:18 pm
i was telling that there is no evidence on afterlife, you can't see afterlife with your eyes. I took literal example, heavenly beings when they do something then within that spawn many years have passed by on human realm. How you can see heavenly beings?
By developing the divine eye, or by being reborn in their realm.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:46 pm

auto wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:18 pm
there maybe is a way to do it as some theories suggest in the internet.
..

i look now what words are translated as afterlife.

paro loko

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/p/paro
paroPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Paro,(adv.) [cp.Vedic paras; to para] beyond,further,above,more than,upwards of;
lokoPali-Dictionary Vipassana Research Institute
loko:The universe; a world; the world; the inhabitants of a world or region; mankind; a being,a creature
by this i can guess the context of the word afterlife. The afterlife is meant as when the body is broken you won't magically go somewhere or cease to exist, but just end up without physical body.

but that is also not the full case since there are fruits of good and bad actions. And i have heard from psychic people that it is possible to read out from person what he/she have done, or even solve cases there are imprints left behind what can be traced back to its owner etc.

you wouldn't never know there are judges after death who send you to certain places to serve your kamma.
I fail to see how this is even vaguely related to your previous statement. Don't worry about it though, I am not particularly interested.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

auto
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by auto » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:47 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:46 pm
I fail to see how this is even vaguely related to your previous statement. Don't worry about it though, I am not particularly interested.
belief in afterlife doesn't go alone it comes with deeds have fruits.
I don't know what is there to be understand to make me understand what is it what decides if my actions are bearing great merit and huge returns.

In Sutta there say that
having contempt on Sariputta is a huge misfortune.
To get to this point what have that person done to have such misfortune. Hence people just can't quit being angry or whatever they are nor can't make you interensted in more how these things work.

dharmacorps
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:32 pm

What would "solid" evidence of the afterlife look like? I don't think there is any way for there to be hard evidence (like physical evidence).

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:39 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 pm
...
....
now i wonder if with the particle cannons when the particles will at highspeed collide and make an impact then it will leave imprints to these realms and can be read?
What are you talking about??? :shrug:
:lol:
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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Re: One of the reason why there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:11 am

Image

Image

Image



According to many pictures depicting the moment of death, afterlife may be present in the form of gaseous evidence rather than in solid or liquid evidence :P .


Image
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59


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