Kundalini Yoga

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Meezer77
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Meezer77 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:06 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:30 am
I've never tried it and know virtually nothing about it. A senior monk at our local monastery, however, gave a very strong warning about mixing it with Buddhist practices, and said he was helping another monk who had been doing it secretly and got himself into psychological difficulties.

I've no axe to grind on this, but that would be enough to sound a warning bell for me.
I’m pretty much a buffet Buddhist. I listen to Dhamma talks more than meditation. The Kundalini exercises have helped my shoulders and posture. Not into the spiritual side, or Tantra . It also gives a nice whoosh feeling. I’ve been feeling slightly off at the moment, cos I’m tapering down my antidepressants slowly

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Sam Vara
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:11 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:06 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:30 am
I've never tried it and know virtually nothing about it. A senior monk at our local monastery, however, gave a very strong warning about mixing it with Buddhist practices, and said he was helping another monk who had been doing it secretly and got himself into psychological difficulties.

I've no axe to grind on this, but that would be enough to sound a warning bell for me.
I’m pretty much a buffet Buddhist. I listen to Dhamma talks more than meditation. The Kundalini exercises have helped my shoulders and posture. Not into the spiritual side, or Tantra . It also gives a nice whoosh feeling. I’ve been feeling slightly off at the moment, cos I’m tapering down my antidepressants slowly
Well, enjoy your Whoosh, and do what feels right for you. Hope all goes well! :anjali:

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:48 am

I wonder if it is about the kundalini, it rises from bottom it is morning and further it rises it comes night.
The part of the day the food allowed to take in refer to where the kundalini is.

https://suttacentral.net/an3.70/en/sujato
You shouldn’t kill living creatures, or steal, Pāṇaṃ na haññe na cadinnamādiye,
or lie, or drink alcohol. Musā na bhāse na ca majjapo siyā;
Be celibate, refraining from sex, Abrahmacariyā virameyya methunā,
and don’t eat at night, the wrong time. Rattiṃ na bhuñjeyya vikālabhojanaṃ

Not wearing garlands or applying fragrance, Mālaṃ na dhāre na ca gandhamācare,
you should sleep on a low bed, or a mat on the ground. Mañce chamāyaṃ va sayetha santhate;
This is the eight-factored sabbath, they say, Etañhi aṭṭhaṅgikamāhuposathaṃ,
explained by the Buddha, who has gone to suffering’s end. Buddhena dukkhantagunā pakāsitaṃ.

now read this, does it mean real moon in the sky?
The moon and sun are both fair to see, Cando ca suriyo ca ubho sudassanā,
radiating as far as they revolve. Obhāsayaṃ anupariyanti yāvatā;
Those shining ones in the sky light up the quarters, Tamonudā te pana antalikkhagā,
dispelling the darkness as they traverse the heavens. Nabhe pabhāsanti disāvirocanā.
..
hmm
All of the wealth that’s found in this realm—Etasmiṃ yaṃ vijjati antare dhanaṃ,
pearls, gems, fine beryl too, Muttā maṇi veḷuriyañca bhaddakaṃ;
horn-gold or mountain gold, Siṅgī suvaṇṇaṃ atha vāpi kañcanaṃ,
or natural gold dug up by marmots—Yaṃ jātarūpaṃ haṭakanti vuccati.
they’re not worth a sixteenth part Aṭṭhaṅgupetassa uposathassa,
of the sabbath with its eight factors, Kalampi te nānubhavanti soḷasiṃ;
as all the constellations of stars can’t equal the light of the moon. Candappabhā tāragaṇā ca sabbe.

what is that heavenly place?
So an ethical woman or man, Tasmā hi nārī ca naro ca sīlavā,
who has observed the eight-factored sabbath, Aṭṭhaṅgupetaṃ upavassuposathaṃ;
having made merit whose outcome is happiness, Puññāni katvāna sukhudrayāni,
blameless, they go to a heavenly place.” Aninditā saggamupenti ṭhānan”ti.
..is it literal?

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Antaradhana
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Antaradhana » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:11 pm

If you are very concerned about seeing something, then you will see it in any text and words. Once again: the Buddha did not teach any energy chakras, channels and kundalini.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 pm

Antaradhana wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:11 pm
If you are very concerned about seeing something, then you will see it in any text and words. Once again: the Buddha did not teach any energy chakras, channels and kundalini.
hmm

https://suttacentral.net/sn1.76/en/sujato
What is ending day and night? kiṃsu rattindivakkhayo;
Youth is ending day and night. Vayo rattindivakkhayo;
vayo is what is left if day and night is gone.

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/v/vaya
vayaPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Vaya,1 (& vayo) (nt.) [Vedic vayas vitality,age; to be distinguished from another vayas meaning “fowl.” The latter is probably meant at Dhtp 232 (& Dhtm 332) with defn “gamane.” The etym.of vayo (age) is connected with Sk.vīra=Lat.vir.man,hero,vīs strength; Gr.i)ζ sinew,i)/fios strong; Sk.vīḍayati to make fast,also veśati; whereas vayas (fowl) corresponds with Sk.vayasa (bird) & viḥ to Gr.ai)etόs eagle,oi)wnόs bird of prey,Lat.avis bird] age,especially young age,prime,youth; meaning “old age” when characterized as such or contrasted to youth (the ord.term for old age being jarā)
vitality. Interesting notion, jarā is term for old age.
jīratiPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Jīrati,& Jīrayati [Caus.of jarati] 1.to destroy,bring to ruin,injure,hurt Vin.I,237 (jīrati); J.V,501 (v.l.BB.for jarayetha,Com.vināseyya)=VI,375; PvA.57.‹-› 2.(cp.jīyati) to get old A.III,54 (jarā-dhammaṁ mā jīri “old age may not get old,” or “the law of decay may not work”); Vism.235 (where id.p.D.II,30 reads jīyati); DhA.I,11 (cakkhūni jīranti).-- 3.(intrs.) to be digested Vism.101.(Page 284)
cakkhūni jīranti - to be digested. When you have vitality then decay mechanics won't work.

https://suttacentral.net/an3.70/en/sujato
And what is the sabbath of the noble ones?
A corrupt mind is cleaned by applying effort. Upakkiliṭṭhassa, visākhe, cittassa upakkamena pariyodapanā hoti.
applying effort.

https://suttacentral.net/sn6.3/en/sujato
Now at that time Brahmadeva’s mother, the brahmin lady, was offering up a regular oblation to Brahmā.
Then Brahmā Sahampati thought,
“This Venerable Brahmadeva’s mother, the brahmin lady, offers up a regular oblation to Brahmā.
Why don’t I go and stir up a sense of urgency in her?
no sense of urgency means ordinary oblation. Point is there is needed unordinary oblation
“Far from here is the Brahmā realm, madam, “Dūre ito brāhmaṇi brahmaloko,
to which you offer a regular oblation. Yassāhutiṃ paggaṇhāsi niccaṃ;
But Brahmā doesn’t eat that kind of food. Netādiso brāhmaṇi brahmabhakkho,
Why make invocations, when you don’t know the path to Brahmā? Kiṃ jappasi brahmapathaṃ ajānaṃ.
invocations and not offering regular oblation. Different kind of food needed.
There are six holes in the world, Cha lokasmiṃ chiddāni,
where one’s wealth leaks out: yattha vittaṃ na tiṭṭhati;
laziness and negligence, Ālasyañca pamādo ca,
lack of initiative and lack of restraint, anuṭṭhānaṃ asaṃyamo;
sleepiness and sloth. Niddā tandī ca te chidde,
You should completely get rid of these holes!” sabbaso taṃ vivajjaye”ti.
loka seem to be not this earth. I think it is reasonable to think of subtly and subtle system and then why not it can't be channels and chakras, nadis?
Last edited by auto on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Antaradhana
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Antaradhana » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:05 pm

The suttas speak of vitality in the sense of health, strength, energy.

But you have not given specific and clear examples about the chakras and energy channels and even more so the practices associated with them. Because there is no such thing in the suttas. These practices are in the hindu and tantric systems, but not in the suttas of the Pali Canon.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:26 pm

Antaradhana wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:05 pm
The suttas speak of vitality in the sense of health, strength, energy.

But you have not given specific and clear examples about the chakras and energy channels and even more so the practices associated with them. Because there is no such thing in the suttas. These practices are in the hindu and tantric systems, but not in the suttas of the Pali Canon.
vitality in eyes, there is seeing regardless of is there light or not.

that is the connection here between Sutta written word and energy channels.


Idk it requires effort to go to consider there is subtle not just your everyday things what you see, you can just stay and believe what is, there is no self without any connection to reality because its subtle. And i understand people disregard what happen in their mind because its not possible to know to others what is in your mind.
But it starts bother when to make a too big footprint.

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mikenz66
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:11 pm

Antaradhana wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:05 pm
The suttas speak of vitality in the sense of health, strength, energy.

But you have not given specific and clear examples about the chakras and energy channels and even more so the practices associated with them. Because there is no such thing in the suttas. These practices are in the hindu and tantric systems, but not in the suttas of the Pali Canon.
I tend to agree with this. The point of the suttas does not appear to be the development of such things.

On the other hand, some of these energy-related practices can be useful aids, in the same way that regular exercise and good nutrition is helpful. I use some simple exercises loosely based on Shiatsu pressure points and Qigong and Feldenkrais motion ideas that are very helpful for calming the body and mind, or arousing some energy when drowsy. As I get older, I am very much aware that keeping my body healthy, flexible, and comfortable is important for continued practice.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu teaches some breath-related energy practices that he says Ajahn Lee developed during a visit to India. He justifies them in terms of the "gladdening" instructions in the antipasti sutta: https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato#20

:heart:
Mike

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:42 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:11 pm
I tend to agree with this. The point of the suttas does not appear to be the development of such things.

On the other hand, some of these energy-related practices can be useful aids, in the same way that regular exercise and good nutrition is helpful. I use some simple exercises loosely based on Shiatsu pressure points and Qigong and Feldenkrais motion ideas that are very helpful for calming the body and mind, or arousing some energy when drowsy. As I get older, I am very much aware that keeping my body healthy, flexible, and comfortable is important for continued practice.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu teaches some breath-related energy practices that he says Ajahn Lee developed during a visit to India. He justifies them in terms of the "gladdening" instructions in the antipasti sutta: https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato#20

:heart:
Mike
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.31/en/sujato
“Sāriputta, do you see that this has come to be?” “Bhūtamidanti, sāriputta, passasī”ti?
sound very esoteric, but is part of the Suttas.
other words you can see for yourself the reason and the proof that birds change their beak when food is different.

Context change so much that what have you done so far if the above is right? do your practice go primal as this? when you talk about qigong it sounds like hobby for health reasons while i'm sure you have heard about taoist inner alchemy too but it takes too much focus of your life to get into? same is with the channels and chakras it looks neiscience but it isn't, it is esoteric who is into it isn't confined to budhism only, esoteric is esoteric regardless of tradition and by looks of it you are the one of it who don't have these kinds of lens on.

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mikenz66
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:28 pm

auto wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:42 pm
Context change so much that what have you done so far if the above is right? do your practice go primal as this? when you talk about qigong it sounds like hobby for health reasons while i'm sure you have heard about taoist inner alchemy too but it takes too much focus of your life to get into? same is with the channels and chakras it looks neiscience but it isn't, it is esoteric who is into it isn't confined to budhism only, esoteric is esoteric regardless of tradition and by looks of it you are the one of it who don't have these kinds of lens on.
I'm having difficulty understanding your point, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

I have no detailed knowledge of the theory behind these techniques, I have simply learned a few things that lead to relaxation. That's why I compared them to exercise and a healthy diet. Having the body in a good, relaxed state is helpful for practice.

:heart:
Mike

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:49 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:28 pm
auto wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:42 pm
Context change so much that what have you done so far if the above is right? do your practice go primal as this? when you talk about qigong it sounds like hobby for health reasons while i'm sure you have heard about taoist inner alchemy too but it takes too much focus of your life to get into? same is with the channels and chakras it looks neiscience but it isn't, it is esoteric who is into it isn't confined to budhism only, esoteric is esoteric regardless of tradition and by looks of it you are the one of it who don't have these kinds of lens on.
I'm having difficulty understanding your point, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

I have no detailed knowledge of the theory behind these techniques, I have simply learned a few things that lead to relaxation. That's why I compared them to exercise and a healthy diet. Having the body in a good, relaxed state is helpful for practice.

:heart:
Mike
i don't have either detailed knowledge about these things, what i mean is there are channels and chakras(can insert other terms for subtle), if you don't incline specifically on it then you don't get to know it either.

https://suttacentral.net/sn6.3/en/sujato
“Far from here is the Brahmā realm, madam, “Dūre ito brāhmaṇi brahmaloko,
to which you offer a regular oblation. Yassāhutiṃ paggaṇhāsi niccaṃ;
But Brahmā doesn’t eat that kind of food. Netādiso brāhmaṇi brahmabhakkho,
Why make invocations, when you don’t know the path to Brahmā? Kiṃ jappasi brahmapathaṃ ajānaṃ.
last line here suggest something specific, which is esoteric. You just can't go do x and expect you get it all. Being a good person in your opinion and think you land on brahma realm.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:44 pm

Image


It is not a Dhamma practice.


Image
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  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

auto
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by auto » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:44 pm
It is not a Dhamma practice.
you mention dhamma practice.., cetasikas are lead to completion they come dhammas just by doing anything they come eventually dhammas. Lastly you don't do thing for real with your body but use what is tied to the body, a subtle mechanics what equal as of like you have done it for real.

Dhamma is or covers, includes a being what has come to be a bhūta
Some interesting notions,
http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/b/bhūta
(1) animate Nature as principle,or the vital aggregates (the 5 Khandhas),with ref.M.I,260; (2) ghosts (amanussā) Sn.222; (3) inanimate Nature as principle

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:34 pm

auto wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:04 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:44 pm
It is not a Dhamma practice.
you mention dhamma practice.., cetasikas are lead to completion they come dhammas just by doing anything they come eventually dhammas. Lastly you don't do thing for real with your body but use what is tied to the body, a subtle mechanics what equal as of like you have done it for real.

Dhamma is or covers, includes a being what has come to be a bhūta
Some interesting notions,
http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/b/bhūta
(1) animate Nature as principle,or the vital aggregates (the 5 Khandhas),with ref.M.I,260; (2) ghosts (amanussā) Sn.222; (3) inanimate Nature as principle
umm, i wrote "Dhamma practice", not "dhamma practice".
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  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

form
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Re: Kundalini Yoga

Post by form » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:24 pm

Someone here pointed out that the sutta on meditation stressed that the spine needs to be straightened when meditating. And kundalini forces indeed move up the spine from the base of the spine.

The problem with kundalini is that the energy is released from the unconscious part of the mind, unconscious part also contains much repressed memories and emotions. When one is not mentally ready to accept it, opening it causes much conflicts within oneself that can result in psychological disturbance in varying degree.

The Buddhist approach will also release repressed memories and emotions, but in a gentler manner.

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