On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:13 pm
Hello Peter,

Thanks for explaining at length. Your answer contains what I've worried about: that is "the possibility of your book not upto the standard set by you", imo.

_________________________
You answered:
Here 'completely' means, that the book explains everything you need to know to attain Nirvana.
And, that very meaning "everything" is what annoys me, considering the first sentence, which set the standard of the whole book, for me:
This book approaches the Buddhist teachings from a Western mind that thinks logically.
What I'm trying to say is the word "logically" in that first sentence of the preface successfully disturbs my enjoyment of the book.
Hi SDA,

Thank you for your reply. I specifically wrote that 'everything' is in service of what to know to attain Nirvana.
______________________
Let's try analyzing the very first page of the book "logic"-wise.
  • Your body is part of its environment because it consists of atoms from the same system.
    I'm asking myself:
    • Is "consisting of atoms from the same system" the reason for our environment being our environment?
    • Has Our environment ceased to be our environment just because of the creation of formerly non existent atoms like ununpentium?
    • What would happen if the "atoms" are from another system?
    • How about photons?
    • Why didn't he say "molecules" nor "sub atomic particles." etc.
So from the perspective of attaining Nirvana, I see these questions and their answers as irrelevant. With 'logically', I only refer to the Western mind thinking in that way. Logic can lead one anywhere as it is not objective, although we can agree upon things. If you read a bit further in the book, you will realize why these questions are irrelevant. There is a main thread in the book, and if you have found it, you will also realize why I wrote it the way I did.
  • Your body, however, already existed in your mother's womb, and before that, as an egg- and sperm cell, which were also created, etc. Human life is growing, planting and evolving.
    Anything before the fertilized egg is not one's body, imo. (so, the statement is un-sound, for me).
Did your body not come from an egg- and sperm cell?
  • As you grow up, your identity, and thus your ego, will grow. This process, which is made well known by Carl Gustav Jung (1903-1955) and Abraham Maslow (1908-1970), is called 'individuation' in Western psychology, and leads to self-realization or self-actualization.
    I want to say "Amen" to the word self-actualization. However, Carl Jung and Maslow the two giants of western psychology were the prime examples of those who have been significantly influenced by eastern philosophies, leading to Maslow's forth force and it's consequences "the atman project", let alone Jung's experiences of psychotic episodes. (the easternly derived western ideas to explain the basics of "Dhamma" is kind of circular reasoning inadvertently, imo. And, using the grand father of "the atman project" to set the basis for explaining the "Buddhist teachings" seems un-sound, to me.)
If you read a bit further, you will realize that this is not at all what I am doing.
These are some examples from first page.
And, the list may go on...

_______________________
To conclude, let's get back to the first paragraph of the preface.
This book approaches the Buddhist teachings from a Western mind that thinks logically. It is a guide, which lets the reader penetrate the core of the Buddhist teachings; 'Nirvana'. This guide focuses completely and solely on reaching this Nirvana.
Considering the whole tome of the tipitaka containing extensively different ways of explaining the Dhamma to realize Nirvana,
I think it is very illogical to claim:
"This guide focuses completely and solely on reaching this Nirvana."
when based on the meaning of "completely" as "everything you need to know to attain Nirvana" as explained by you.
Maybe you want to read the book in its entirety first, and then you can decide if it is illogical or incomplete or not. That is the only way to find out isn't it? It is only 22 pages long (in A4 format and excluding the preface), so what harm could it do? Of course I am not asking you to.

Warm regards.
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Thanks for the reply, Peter.
  • With 'logically', I only refer to the Western mind thinking in that way.
With that in mind, I'll try reading the book, and ask some questions, as needed. May be next weekend.

Regards,
.


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PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Thanks for the reply, Peter.
  • With 'logically', I only refer to the Western mind thinking in that way.
With that in mind, I'll try reading the book, and ask some questions, as needed. May be next weekend.

Regards,
You're welcome and thank you for the connect! I am happy to answer more questions if you have them.
Last edited by PeterC86 on Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Thanks,

I don't understand this:
To know what really good is, you need to know what really bad is.
For example, to know a red hot iron is really hot, one just needs to touch it. He doesn't necessarily need to know what is the feeling of touching a really cold one like something at -273.15 degrees Celsius, imo, to estimate how hot touching the red hot iron feels.

:heart:
.


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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

I don't understand this
On the middle way, there is no reference point that you are looking for and want to cling to. You open yourself up to all feelings that you experience, without you wanting to interpret them. Now, if you feel pain because you got burned, your body will naturally avoid this, without you needing to interpret it. The same goes for when you are sleepy, hungry, cold, etc. The thin line between physical needs, and egocentric desires, is the middle way.
According to the passage, the possible scenario of "my body will naturally sleep/eat when I'm sleepy/hungry" seems the physical-needs-way. Not the middle way, imo.

:heart:
.


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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Hello,

Up to now, although I can't say the book is logical when referring to the words found in the first three sentences of the preface, I can say it is enjoyable, and informative about zero energy universe, and Adenosine.

And, I really like the idea of 'short-cut' to the state of "neither perception nor non-perception" without tediously having to go through all those intimidating jhanas:
"We now know that the formless is empty, and therefore, it is not possible to really grasp what you nonperceive (that which is beyond your perception). Through insight in the above, your awareness is thrown back and forth between neither perception, because nothing is formed, and nor non-perception, because the formless is also nothing. Until you realize that this going back and forth is also perceived from some point. That point is the state of 'neither perception nor non-perception', where there is stillness of the mind, this state is also Nirvana."

:heart:
.


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Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:15 pm
Thanks,

I don't understand this:
To know what really good is, you need to know what really bad is.
For example, to know a red hot iron is really hot, one just needs to touch it. He doesn't necessarily need to know what is the feeling of touching a really cold one like something at -273.15 degrees Celsius, imo, to estimate how hot touching the red hot iron feels.

:heart:
Yes, but hot is a feeling and good is not.
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:31 pm
I don't understand this
On the middle way, there is no reference point that you are looking for and want to cling to. You open yourself up to all feelings that you experience, without you wanting to interpret them. Now, if you feel pain because you got burned, your body will naturally avoid this, without you needing to interpret it. The same goes for when you are sleepy, hungry, cold, etc. The thin line between physical needs, and egocentric desires, is the middle way.
According to the passage, the possible scenario of "my body will naturally sleep/eat when I'm sleepy/hungry" seems the physical-needs-way. Not the middle way, imo.

:heart:
Indeed, the middle way goes beyond that, but the passsage doesn't say that the physical-needs-way is the middle way.
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:23 pm
Hello,

Up to now, although I can't say the book is logical when referring to the words found in the first three sentences of the preface, I can say it is enjoyable, and informative about zero energy universe, and Adenosine.
Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. Do you understand why I went to the trouble explaining all that?
And, I really like the idea of 'short-cut' to the state of "neither perception nor non-perception" without tediously having to go through all those intimidating jhanas:
"We now know that the formless is empty, and therefore, it is not possible to really grasp what you nonperceive (that which is beyond your perception). Through insight in the above, your awareness is thrown back and forth between neither perception, because nothing is formed, and nor non-perception, because the formless is also nothing. Until you realize that this going back and forth is also perceived from some point. That point is the state of 'neither perception nor non-perception', where there is stillness of the mind, this state is also Nirvana."

:heart:
Read it a couple of times more in the future if you like, you might find some new insights that you haven't gotten now. One can't expect to fully understand the path after just one read.

All the best to you!
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:38 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:15 pm
Thanks,

I don't understand this:
To know what really good is, you need to know what really bad is.
For example, to know a red hot iron is really hot, one just needs to touch it. He doesn't necessarily need to know what is the feeling of touching a really cold one like something at -273.15 degrees Celsius, imo, to estimate how hot touching the red hot iron feels.

:heart:
Yes, but hot is a feeling and good is not.
I like the answer.

PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:48 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:31 pm
I don't understand this
On the middle way, there is no reference point that you are looking for and want to cling to. You open yourself up to all feelings that you experience, without you wanting to interpret them. Now, if you feel pain because you got burned, your body will naturally avoid this, without you needing to interpret it. The same goes for when you are sleepy, hungry, cold, etc. The thin line between physical needs, and egocentric desires, is the middle way.
According to the passage, the possible scenario of "my body will naturally sleep/eat when I'm sleepy/hungry" seems the physical-needs-way. Not the middle way, imo.

:heart:
Indeed, the middle way goes beyond that, but the passsage doesn't say that the physical-needs-way is the middle way.

I see now too, the passsage doesn't say that the physical-needs-way is the middle way.

:heart:
.


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Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

In a few days I will start traveling, and it could take a long time before I can improve upon the book again. I have recently improved the book a bit, and before I go, I want to share it. Aside from some professional editing, I feel that the book is nearly finished now.

Fix list:
-linguistical errors and inconsistencies
-some small technicalities
-lay-out
-added a chapter about practice
Attachments
On your way home Second press.pdf
(495.3 KiB) Downloaded 57 times
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

This topic deals with my path, which approaches the Buddhist teaching from a logical perspective, and can be seen in relation to other paths that teach the way to liberation.

An investigation into these other paths, and how they relate to each other on a fundamental level, can be found in this topic; viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36821&start=90#p555520

so that every potential student can choose his or her own way. Every one of these paths (Theravada, Mahayana, Taoism, Zen, my path) takes a different approach, but they lead to the same realization. So the experience of liberation resulting from any of those paths, is neither the same nor different than the other. May you all have swift progress on the path, whatever path this may be.

_/|\_
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings,

You seem to believe in an external reality, glancing over your book.

Metta

:)
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Spiny Norman »

PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:26 pm
This topic deals with my path, which approaches the Buddhist teaching from a logical perspective, and can be seen in relation to other paths that teach the way to liberation.

An investigation into these other paths, and how they relate to each other on a fundamental level, can be found in this topic; viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36821&start=90#p555520

so that every potential student can choose his or her own way. Every one of these paths (Theravada, Mahayana, Taoism, Zen, my path) takes a different approach, but they lead to the same realization. So the experience of liberation resulting from any of those paths, is neither the same nor different than the other. May you all have swift progress on the path, whatever path this may be.

_/|\_
Just a suggestion, but if you stop pretending to be a teacher, you might actually learn something here.
In any case, this is a discussion forum, and not a place to preach.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

PeterC86
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Re: On Your Way Home - A Road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 »

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:56 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:26 pm
This topic deals with my path, which approaches the Buddhist teaching from a logical perspective, and can be seen in relation to other paths that teach the way to liberation.

An investigation into these other paths, and how they relate to each other on a fundamental level, can be found in this topic; viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36821&start=90#p555520

so that every potential student can choose his or her own way. Every one of these paths (Theravada, Mahayana, Taoism, Zen, my path) takes a different approach, but they lead to the same realization. So the experience of liberation resulting from any of those paths, is neither the same nor different than the other. May you all have swift progress on the path, whatever path this may be.

_/|\_
Just a suggestion, but if you stop pretending to be a teacher, you might actually learn something here.
In any case, this is a discussion forum, and not a place to preach.
Dear Dinsdale,

What do I preach? Besides saying that everyone should decide for themselves what path to take, and that no one else can decide the best path for you? Which is an empty preach.

I can only advice you to take a bit of a personal distance, to see how everything fits together. It is up to you what you do with this advice.

Warm regards,
Peter
I am only here to guide others who are searching for Nibbana.

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